Blood tests - has this ever happened to anybody?

[Dribblesnot]

So today I went for my 28wk blood test and the phlebotomist found the vein, stuck the needle in but then couldn’t get any blood! It was rather painful and I’m not great with needles at the best of times so after a while I thought I was going to pass out and she stopped.
I asked if it was my veins causing the issue as I’d never had any problems having bloods done before and she said no, it was that the vacuum was too strong for my vein?
As I said, I’m really not good with needles and decided to book another appointment rather than try again today (I also didn’t really trust the phlebotomist - she seemed just as nervous as me and didn’t even attempt to reassure me.) but I now can’t get an appointment for over a week.

I’ve never had any experience like this before and I’m now really afraid I can’t have the blood test until I’m 30+2, should I be worrying about that or am I just being precious? And has anybody else ever heard of a vacuum being too strong to get blood?

There are two main blood sampling systems in use in the U.K. - monovette & vacutainer. Former lets the user vacuum each sample bottle individually like a syringe. Latter involved pre-vacuumed bottles.
I've been taking blood for almost 25years - sometimes as others have said the vacuum is too strong.
Not all phlebotomists are trained/allowed to use alternative sampling methods e.g. Butterfly due to training/perceived risks.
And some days even experienced people don't get it right....not quite the same but I've probably done considerably more than 10000 cannulae in my working life. I still meet patients I need to have two (or more) attempts on. some people have genuinely difficult veins, every operator has off days.

I used to really struggle with blood tests as they would fail to find a vein and would spend ages poking around. Someone told me to drink a pint or two of water (and try not pee, easier said than done when pregnant) before a blood test and it has worked for me ever since. If you're dehydrated it's much harder for them to find a vein and get sufficient blood from it. Also keep your arms warm as this makes your veins pop, I used to have to sit with my hands in bowls of warm water to help them get a vein

my mum when ill had terrible problems-i nearly fainted last time they took blood from me

its not unusual hope its beter next time

Happens to me all the time - no low blood pressure and I'm not pregnant.

I hate needles too - but if it's any consolation, it doesn't happen every time

Usually if it happens to me; they try again, alternating sides until they get the blood! I hate it and it takes me ages to book blood tests if I need them, but it's okay.

It can happen. It's why most paediatric departments don't use vacuum needle systems on small children, because their veins are notorious for collapsing under the suction. Less common in adults, but yeah, if you're underfilled it would be more likely.

May just have missed your vein, or had the needle move, but the suction issue is actually plausible.

While the vacutainers can easily suck a small vein down so it won't bleed, you usually still get a drop of blood at least, so if there was literally no flashback she probably just missed. You can still get bloods done with a needle and syringe but it's largely discouraged because of the risk to the HCP of needlestick injuries (it's how I do it because I'm old and crusty and think vacutainers are a bit crap for anything smaller than a vein you could park a car in). Good luck with the next go.

I work in district nursing taking bloods amongst other things, we still use the monovette style system.

I’m fairly good at it now, I get sent to a lot of patients who others have struggled to get blood off and have managed no problem so then I get sent all the time! I’ve gotten really good at judging what type of needle to use, whether standard or a fine butterfly, and which vein I think will be the most fruitful and how deep I need to go

Also most of the sample bottles we use, or tests that requested rather, only need a small amount of blood in then apart from the ESR and INR samples which If it is a difficult patient can be a pain!

As others have said drinking loads, warm compress all helps that’s my advice to my patients but as others have said these things happen even I struggle sometimes and then will go the next day and get it straight away! That is very frustrating! It’s possible the first phlebotomist went straight through the vein

Ask for a baby needle (I have to every time!) an experienced HCP will gauge that this is necessary anyway. Ask to have your feet up and don't watch the procedure. Good luck :)

Another thing I have come to notice is that you can tell patients who regularly get bloods taken are having them done from the same place over and over again as you can feel like little knots almost

This happened to me once... I fainted a few minutes after they finished! I have bloods taken often but that never happened before or after- thank God!

This happens to me all the time but the phlebotomist will usually know immediately if the vein isn't behaving and will try a different one.

She sounds quite inexperienced.

Yes. When I was pregnant and for six months afterwards or so - each time there’d be a little puff of air and then nothing. Very odd.

I had a wonderful phlebotomist the last time it happened who advised me to drink as much water as I could stand and not to book tests for first thing in the morning. She also said to keep my arm warm before the test. She got some of those paediatric butterfly needle thingies for the time she booked me back in but with all the rest of her advice they weren’t needed.

I have a blood test every week or two (that's Warfarin for you) . Had this the other day, turned out to be a faulty vial.

Fortunately the blood tests dont worry me and I quite happily watch (try to guess the results from the flow into the vial).

Over twenty years I have taken a lot of blood samples ( from animals, but the principles are the same). You can blocked needles, vacutainers with no vacuum, too strong vacuum that pulls the vein wall against the needle blocking it ( spin of the needle can resolve this), low blood pressure and thrombophlebitis in the vein. And some times you just have a crap vein moment and don't hit.

I have had my blood taken/given etc. multiple times a year all in the USA (multiple States and providers) for 40 years. I have never had an issue except when I was pregnant in the UK. Every single time they took my blood they had trouble getting the needle in and every single time I ended up with a HUGE black and blue mark all around the needle site. Just to repeat, this pregnant in the UK period is the only time in my life that this happened and it happened every single time with quite a few different phlebotomists throughout 2 pregnancies. To this day, I don't know if it was a consequence of being pregnant (hormones doing something to the veins?), or is the way blood is drawn in the UK different than how blood is drawn in the USA (where all of my other blood takings/givings were done).

I'm terrible for getting blood out of. I have been told to make sure I've eaten before I come in and drink lots of water so I'm not dehydrated and also a sugary snack for after in case they struggle and have to try a few times which will make me feel faint even though I'm perfectly fine with the pain. It seems to work much better now.

Good luck for next time op.

I either have problems getting the blood our or getting the bleeding to stop, unless I have a particular phlebotomist who has no problem at all

I'm a phlebotomist, I've never heard of the vacuum being too strong.... she may have missed the vein (happens sometimes) or the vein may have slipped to the side of the needle in which case I'm guessing she was in there so long trying to make an adjustment into the vein. Don't worry, hopefully your next phlebotomist will find the vein and if there really aren't any veins they can go into your hand with a fine needle/butterfly

My youngest dd has regular blood tests due to a health condition, and it took 6 attempts in both arms last week. They almost gave up, it just would not come. She is only 8 and was incredibly brave

Sometimes the veins do collapse and stop giving blood. one of the nurses said to me it was almost like they think "ha, I'm not giving you any" and close.

It's happened to me once where they said they were in, and nothing came out, and once to ds when he was about 7yo, it was spurting happily into the bottle, then just suddenly stopped half way through bottle #2. They tried poking around he then fainted (having been happily sitting up asking questions until that moment) and they had to go in the other arm to get the rest.

And then it had to be redone a fortnight later as the main discovery of the blood was that he is majorly allergic to magic cream.

I fully sympathise. My veins are utterly crap. Inexperienced nurses often have trouble getting blood from me, I've had a few experienced ones have issues too! When I was 30 weeks I flummoxed one midwife as my veins apparently kept collapsing. Tried three times in one arm and twice on the other. It was fine a week later though!
I needed a canula put in during labour and three midwives failed at getting one in. It was really painful, worse than the contractions. The anaesthetist got one in my wrist with no effort though.

As someone who has drawn blood for 30 years, I will say that this can happen.
If the needle is put in with the bore too close to the vein wall it will suck it down over the bore and stop it flowing in.
A slight movement of the needle would have fixed it.
Its usually caused by going in at too shallow of an angle and is easily fixed without the patient even being aware.
She sounds inexperienced.

You just had a crappy phlebotomist. I've had hundreds of blood draws, and there are some who get it on the first try, and there are some who couldn't stick a vein the size of the Mississippi. I'm so sorry you had a bad experience.

I’ve had plenty of blood draws where they had to call in a colleague and several where they have sent me to the iv team. Those are when things are really bad.

Sometimes the phlebotomist is just unskilled. More often it seems just a mismatch of technique and vein because the other person will get it on the first try. After a particularly bad experience, I never let anyone try more than twice now.

A student midwife told me I had 'thick skin' when taking three attempts to get a cannula in while I was in labour. I felt so I'll for the rest of the labour due to blood loss.

A doctor during my next pregnancy showed me where the cannula should go (in her words, she's amazing at cannulas but most people don't get taught how to do it properly).