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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Property developers

54 replies

Winegal · 27/07/2018 10:36

Accidentally caught homes under the hammer while on a days leave, AIBU to be unreasonably angry about it, all these people with loads of cash building up a "portfolio" ie buying houses perfect for first time buyers, that need a little bit of work people could do as and when they could afford it.

Just saw one, bought a perfect 3 bed family home for 95 grand then basically said he would be selling it after a bit of work for 165 grand.

I really think there should be a maximum number of properties that anyone can own in the UK, especially as we are short of homes as it is.

AIBU?

OP posts:
W0rriedMum · 27/07/2018 10:43

It's a tricky one.. In theory I agree with you, but the question is where to invest these days. Equities- super volatile and expert knowledge needed. Bonds - hard to access as a personal investor and again you need to know what you're doing. No return on savings at all.. It makes sense for someone who has saved up £200K to buy a rental property in order to get a small return (usually 4-5%) rather than to let inflation bite into it.

What bothers me though is those who "flip" houses quickly trying to make a fast buck and those who are heavily indebted or leveraged. The second group don't tend to keep the properties nice for tenants as they are maxed to the hilt already.

CambridgeAnaglypta · 27/07/2018 10:48

You sound jealous actually.

Whats wrong with buying houses, doing them up and selling for what they are worth and making a profit at the same time. As long .as all the tax is properly paid

Train101 · 27/07/2018 10:48

Tbh, some are wrecked and they make into amazing homes and then sell which I've no problem with as it's a lot of work.

However it is a bit annoying to hear about a house crisis and then see people snapping up loads of homes to rentor just decorate and resell.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 27/07/2018 10:48

I agree- however developers will still flip houses, they will put it in their spouses, kids names etc.
I also believe you should reside in this country to buy a home- stop people in other countries buying homes here for investment, a lot of the time leaving them empty as it isnt worth them sorting the tax implications.

Original poster
Winegal · 27/07/2018 10:49

I do agree with you about property being a pretty safe and rewarding investment but I feel we are at a tipping point. We've now been pushed out of two suburbs of our city because of price and the current one we live in we like, but has by no means ever been considered "posh". We are saving to buy but the cheapest little TINY house we can now get in this area is 200k?!

I feel we are at a tipping point and the government need to do something. Me and DPs salary is pretty decent but it just feels impossible to buy. The only people my age (30) that have bought had major parental help and/or inheritance. It's not fair people see homes people could live in as an investment when people have nowhere to live.

OP posts:
TheIncredibleBookEatingManchot · 27/07/2018 10:50

YANBU

I've often thought the same about limiting the number of properties people can own.

Sometimes I think it would be better if no one was allowed to own more than one property (with rules on how long someone had to sell a property if they already owned one and then inherited one) and that all rental property should be council or housing association owned.

Don't know if that would work in practice though.

It just annoys me so much to see the wealthy getting wealthier out of this and the poor (and even average earners) finding it harder and harder to get a secure home.

MereDintofPandiculation · 27/07/2018 10:55

When savings rates are at a rate such that, even with interest, your savings are losing value year after year, you can't blame people for buying property instead if it is legal to do so.

But it's yet another thing exacerbating the problems of home buying. Buy-to-letters are targetting the same houses as first time home buyers. So of many of those would-be homebuyers a) they find themselves renting instead b) they pay over the odds for the privilege.

50 years ago you had a choice: you paid £X and rented; or you paid £(X+Y), but the house was yours at the end of it. Now it's the other way round - if you can find a house to buy, it's cheaper to buy than to rent (at least it is in my end of the world).

flamingofridays · 27/07/2018 10:56

a lot of first time buyers don't want to start ripping out kitchens and bathrooms and rewiring old houses.

most first time buyers I know have actually bought newbuilds...…

you sound a bit jealous

TheAvengers33 · 27/07/2018 10:58

Damn where did all the communists come from?

Hmm, the people buying those houses and doing them up are not getting a crazy deal on it, they are buying it at the same price that anyone else could... What's stopping those first time buyers from buying it and doing it up themselves? If its the price or lack of funds I understand that but then you can't stop others from buying the property as an investment because you can't afford it...

The rules with regards to buy to let properties have been changed this past year which means that there isn't much profit in it anymore, this will slow down the market and allow first time buyers to get on the ladder. Though tbh, it has slowed the market completely as first time buyers still can't afford the prices and investment buyers are wary of the tax implications so now its just stuck... Hmm

longwayoff · 27/07/2018 11:08

Saw a woman on come dine yesterday who smugly announced her portfolio consisted of 100 properties. I did think it was a tad greedy.To the barricades!

Wherismymind · 27/07/2018 11:10

I think the issue comes when the price of "starter" homes goes up because developers and landlords increase demand on the properties, and when sellers are preferring to accept offers of developers and landlords because they have no chain. There is also the issue of larger family homes being converted into HMO's (house of multiple occupancy).But there is a place for developers, as someone else said some of the houses they buy are in a very bad state and would not be bought otherwise. There will also always be a place for rental properties and for that we need landlords. I just think we need more rules around it. I don't think families and couples wanting a home should be competing with profiteers. So maybe you could only buy homes for development and/or rental if the house is unwanted by owner occupants after a set period at market.

Racecardriver · 27/07/2018 11:19

YABU. They are taking a risk (and a big one if the are holding onto the properties for any length of time) in order to try to warm a living. Society at large benefits from an improved housing stock. The people they sell to benefit from being able to buy a nice house and it's not like anyone is actually missing out (most people who can't afford to buy a done up house can afford to buy one that is falling apart and fix it up too). Do you generally get pissed of when you see other people working hard/risking their capital and earning money? Or is it just because you have the British disease-obsession with home ownership no matter how unreasonable it would be to buy?

MadeForThis · 27/07/2018 11:38

No one is stopping a first time buyer from going to an auction and buying a property. It's not a closed sale. Anyone can bid.

The developer is taking a risk on the state of the property and the cost of repairs.

Lots of first time buyers take that gamble and end up with a great house. We did. Some prefer the security of buying something with no work needed. They pay a premium for that.

silkpyjamasallday · 27/07/2018 11:40

I think it’s an unfortunate situation where you have developers and first time buyers competing for the same housing stock, but I don’t think it will change. We tried to buy at auction a few weeks ago, and lost out to phone bidders who came in at the last minute (when the auctioneer had done going once, going twice on my bid after about 15 minutes of bids between me and two others) and took it up to more than double my bid, which made it unaffordable for us. Absolutely gutting as so few suitable and affordable things come up in the area we want to buy. But my parents are steadily building their ‘portfolio’ as they’ve made such astronomical gains investing in property, so I can see it from the other side too. @whereismymind s idea is good, but people are greedy and won’t want to risk loosing out on a sale to developers with deeper pockets than sell to people who want a home.

Wherismymind · 27/07/2018 12:10

@whereismymind s idea is good, but people are greedy and won’t want to risk loosing out on a sale to developers with deeper pockets than sell to people who want a home.

Agreed people would find ways regardless to not sell to owner occupants if they can get more from developers.

I don't see an issue with developers buying at auction, the house is at auction because no one wants it. But normal houses on the market are being snapped up by landlords and developers. When buying we have found you pretty much have to be the first viewer and first to put in offer otherwise landlords will get it.

But it could all crash with brexit.

bgmama · 27/07/2018 12:11

Everyone who says that nothing is stopping first-time buyers from buying these homes, please read what silkpyjamas has written. Developers increase competition and prices and house prices are already sky-high, that's the problem.
And for those who cry "jealousy", yeah how dare you criticise people who own several properties while you rent and are prevented from buying your home by these same people!

ClaudiaWankleman · 27/07/2018 12:17

I think it's a symptom of the time, to be honest. Tax reform is making property less appealing though, which I think is good.

Being a landlord is a bit of a dirty profession IMO, as is property developing. I look forward to a time when slum landlords will lose it all - they do deserve it.

Original poster
Winegal · 27/07/2018 13:16

Thank you bgmama, that was exactly the point I was making. Just because we 'could' doesn't mean we 'should'. I understand it is a lucrative endeavour to invest in property but I don't think it is right. And in this current climate the government need to step in. Yes it's a shame people that there isn't a great return on savings etc but I think it's a greater shame that first time buyers after a home to make their lives in aren't able to because people who are already financially secure are lining their pockets. It's the way it is.

And to those who think I'm jealous, I'm not. I'm very lucky that both my parents and my in laws are financially able and willing to help us to buy a house but we are still saving to contribute.

OP posts:
Original poster
Winegal · 27/07/2018 13:20

And to racecardriver. No. I don't get pissed off to see hard working people earning money. I work damn hard every day in addition to studying for a degree in the evenings. I do get pissed off with people lining their pockets buying "property" when there could be other decent hardworking people living in them. Homes.

OP posts:
greendale17 · 27/07/2018 13:24

a lot of first time buyers don't want to start ripping out kitchens and bathrooms and rewiring old houses.

^Wrong. Almost everyone I know has bought their first house this way.

LakieLady · 27/07/2018 13:30

Sometimes I think it would be better if no one was allowed to own more than one property (with rules on how long someone had to sell a property if they already owned one and then inherited one) and that all rental property should be council or housing association owned.

I have that fantasy too!

My job is helping people who are homeless or threatened with homelessness, it would be fantastic if there was no need for people like me.

It just seems to get harder and harder, and now we're seeing more families who are in work and on reasonable incomes who just can't find anywhere to rent that they can afford.

flamingofridays · 27/07/2018 13:44

Wrong. Almost everyone I know has bought their first house this way

Ah right so because everyone you know has done this must mean all ftb are the same.
As i said most ftb I know especially the younger ones have bought new builds.

Original poster
Winegal · 27/07/2018 14:32

Flamingo that is probably because they sometimes run help to buy schemes but there isn't an estate of new builds within miles of me

OP posts:
AngelsSins · 27/07/2018 14:42

It annoys me a bit too OP, even though I know I might be a bit unreasonable to feel that way. What annoys me even more though, is foreign investors getting priority. For example, my partner manages a block of new build flats, a large percentage of them we’re reserved to be marketed at investors in Hong Kong. How can’t that be right when there’s such a limited supply of housing in London? How do they expect lower earners in London to ever get onto the property market?!

AngelsSins · 27/07/2018 14:43

I think ultimately, owning your own home is a pretty basic human right in a first world country. Making money out of the housing market isn’t.

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