To think we should actually 'just piss off back to the 1970s'?

[TheMythicalChicken]

So this is in response to a TRA on Twitter who said that all those women objecting to proposed changes to the GRA should 'just piss off back to the 1970s'. And it got me thinking - maybe that's what we need to do, at least in terms of women fighting to be heard and for certain rights to be protected.

In the 1970s we had women's groups, we had our own feminist newspaper, 'Spare Rib', women were powerful and strong and we gained so much for women of the future. Most women of that generation gave up feminism, because we didn't feel we needed it anymore. But when I look at what's happening now, in terms of men in women's spaces, erasure of lesbians, etc. it makes me think that we need to organize and fight in the same way we did back then.

What does everyone else think?

The 70s stank....literally. I lived in a town which was killed by Thatcher and saw kids go hungry and shoeless.

It's stupid thing to say OP.

University wouldn't have even been suggested (or even thought of) to the overwhelming majority of working class people in the 1970s.

Not so stupid for some of us. It was in the 70s that I became a feminist. Female solidarity was greater then than it is now.

It's challenging now for women as we can see the deviancy in plain sight - Metoo, corrupt and self-centred politicians, broken welfare systems, attacks on single-sex spaces and safeguarding.

I think I'd prefer to undo what Thatcher and the Neocons did to dismantle all the financial safeguards that led to the 2008 crash, that are still not back in place.

Back in the 70s women with a degree were recruited in big numbers into IT and cross trained - and that all went, hence the low numbers of women now.

And of course, I would like to a re-run of my life

Maybe ask MNHQ to change the title @TheMythicalChicken as a lot of posters are clearly only reading the title?

The 70s stank....literally. I lived in a town which was killed by Thatcher and saw kids go hungry and shoeless. Hmm... Thatcher became PM in 1979 - it was the 80s when her policies were being put into effect.

But as a couple of posters have said - OP wants to go back to women getting their act together, not to go back to the conditions of the 70s.

Shows the importance of choosing the right title for your thread (and reading the whole post, not just reacting to the title)

and 'university is really only for the well off'. Yes let's go back.

That's not really accurate, at least as far as university is concerned. Whilst it's true that fewer people overall went, because you didn't need a degree for most jobs, full grants were available, in sad contrast to today. So surely the idea about university being only for the rich is more true right now than in the 70s.

Correct. I was the first in my family and the first on our whole council estate to go to university, on a full grant with all fees paid.

What is "the erasure of lesbians"?

@SanctimoniousMorph the OP says to piss off back to the seventies, no. Be more active in feminism encourage the next generation to recognise how far we came and how far there still is to go, yes

Absolutely agree OP, far too many of us took our eyes off the ball when things like equal pay and the sex discrimination act made us assume that the battle had been won.

It is now considerably more difficult to find non-gendered toys, clothing, books etc than it was 20 years ago.

Even children's toothbrushes seem to come in either red with tractors on or purple with unicorns!

There was a lot of good in feminism in the 70s. For a start, debate was tolerated, even encouraged. Women's spaces were sacrosanct. There was a sense of fighting and optimism and the backlash had not properly begun. There was a lot of lesbophobia though. I do feel for lesbian women - they were not really wanted in the feminist movement or the gay movement.

SanctimoniousMorph, I agree that it should be born Women, only. It angered me when the gay men at university would try to speak for all gay people. they certainly didn't speak for me as a bi-sexual woman. But they were elevated and always made into a group leader. It took a few of the Women to have issues because of their childcare arrangements for them to find out that it didn't work. But, IMO, the almost worshiping of Gay Men that happens is because we are used to deferring to Men. Gay Men are seen as non-threatening, so elevated to positions that they aren't capable of having. that's been my constant experience, anyway.

""You feel that feminism is still working at the ground level .. but are you optimistic that things will continue to change for the better for women?""

I think that the self identification issue, is an important Woman's issue that needs addressing.

Life is very different for the Women living in the area that I grew up in. It was an area were DV was in every second house, but it didn't have a name, it was part of married life.

Now, I hear of all people speaking out against it. I travel by bus and get into conversation with people. The views towards rape cases and every issue has done a complete turn around.

She was talking about women getting their act together, like women did in the 70's.

Some Women got their act together for other groups of Women that they approved of, or could identify with. It certainly wasn't inclusive.

Even now on the Feminist bord on here, the opinion is that you have to be between a certain age, employment status to choose to have a Baby. You must work and use childcare. You must not be promiscuous, otherwise it means you have low self esteem. I've often said that no-one like to tell Women how they should live, like a self proscribed feminist.

MereDintofPandiculation, i think that's your subjective experience re physical appearance. For those of us who was surround by the gutter press readers and were selective of what they watched on television (Benny Hill, Miss World, etc). Physical appearance was as important, because it was your way out of poverty.

Pemba there were lots of socio/economic reasons why Women in the 70's didn't feel that gaining an education was for them. It had nothing to do with not needing qualifications, but the attitude that Women didn't need educating. It all depended on your Family background and sometimes Teachers.

Pemba there were lots of socio/economic reasons why Women in the 70's didn't feel that gaining an education was for them. It had nothing to do with not needing qualifications, but the attitude that Women didn't need educating. It all depended on your Family background and sometimes Teachers.

I was at school in the 70s and don't really recognise that picture. Aren't you talking more about an earlier period, say the 50s?

Fair enough the 70s had far more active political campaigning but then again so many more things were shit. We take so much for granted now; I’d far rather live in the here and now than back then.

I recall a lot of great feminist teachers who encouraged me - many male teachers too. I was poor and working class btw.

That said however, I do remember once queueing up outside an Economics class though, a male teacher (not our usual) came along to take the class and he said to me 'What's a pretty young lady like you doing taking Economics?'. Can you imagine? However I immediately thought 'silly old fart' and he was very much the exception to the rule.

'What's a pretty young lady like you doing taking Economics?'

Do you think the sexism was more overt then and less insidious? I do, in a way. I was mocked for wanting to be a Ms and had a couple of similar experiences to you, but now things seem more nasty, underhand and undermining in many ways.

Pemba, perhaps it was regional. I grew up in a disadvantaged part of Liverpool. I came first out of the Girls in my school in Biology, but it was suggested that I chose typing instead.

I had and still do, a keen interest in History and Politics. it was said that all a Woman could do with those was teach History. I was very attractive and was told that I wouldn't be taken seriously.

My experience was a common one. Unless you had relatives that would push you on, it generally didn't happen.

Factories started to close and everyone needed to work. I look at the Women who I went to school with, all in the top sets, all left in the early 80's with A &B CSE's and they are all in min wage type jobs. Many became heroin addicts.

I wanted to go back to study in the early 90's but because my DH worked and I didn't and we couldn't afford to pay, I couldn't.

It took until the rules were changed and TC came in for it to be possible for me to go to University.

But that's the issue, the lack of recognition by some groups of Women about the reality of choice for other Women.

You've just more or less said that i don't know what I'm talking about and used sarcasm. I'd expect that from a Man.

@Birdsgottafly what on earth are you on about? Are you mixing me up with someone else? I can't see anything in my previous post about being bigoted about anything!

"but now things seem more nasty, underhand and undermining in many ways."

But now we can address the underhandedness. The law agrees with us having rights. We can turn it around and make the other person look incredibly foolish, without being attacked from all sides.

""I recall a lot of great feminist teachers who encouraged me""

Ours didn't. They very much had the attitude that were we were headed, domestic drudgery, low wages, was what we deserved as "the lower classes".

I can remember one Teacher asking someone what they would want as a wage and saying but what if ten other people would work for less? You can't expect anything more. We were conditioned to know our place and the place of a Woman was even lower.

AlpacaLypse, then why with all the issues being experienced by Women, perhaps not in your circle, but the majority, still. Did you think it was done and dusted?

I have this debate with university educated Women, from school, who are now in their 60/70's. They often don't recognise that more campaigning was needed at grass roots level.

Bit like today's Labour party.

Yes Spartacus I think the sexism was more overt. But I can't help thinking that in some ways things have got worse for women and girls. All the pressure to be completely hair free and look perfect all the time (which comes from porn) never existed back then. I didn't know anyone who removed their pubic hair. Also a lot of men now seem to expect their partners to be adventurous sexually and maintain as near perfect a hair free body as possible. They also expect their partner to be contributing equally financially both before and after children. So many threads I've seen on here where the OP says 'I have saved for my maternity leave but have run out of money, I am borrowing money from DP for nappies'. They are reluctant to marry, yet expect that any DCs will of course have their surname. I find it incredible. A lot of young men are so selfish, they have it all their own way.

Other things are much better for women though obviously, the police can no longer so easily turn a blind eye to DV, more representation of women in senior roles, etc.

I think we have lost sight, yes. When I look at my daughter's social Media account, it consists of selfies of girls with their cleavage out or they are sticking their bums out or pouting. I tell her I find it depressing that that is how people choose to define themselves.

At the same time, there's a lot of activism about transgender and lesbian issues but I still think women are discriminated against more. Looking around me, we are the ones working part time for lower pay, we are the ones that stay home to look after the children because we're not the main breadwinners and we are the ones that cook, clean and do everything else despite having to work too. Many women I know are nonchalant about that

'You've just more or less said that i don't know what I'm talking about and used sarcasm. I'd expect that from a Man.'

Are you talking to me, Birds? What sarcasm? I don't think there was any need for that.

From your later post I see that was from your own experience. Obviously we had different experiences, I am sorry they were so unsupportive at your school. Sorry, but I was reading quickly, and sort of assumed you were a younger person who was getting their time periods mixed up. But now I see you were actually around then!