To think it’s very sad certain professions are denied to some children

[continuallychargingmyphone]

I just didn’t know when I joined MN that if your name is not suitably middle class you are forced into a life of servitude in Asda or Tesco. No being a high court judge for you.

Or, aibu to think people are ridiculous and call your baby what you like?

“In general, I notice the "unique" thing does not seem to matter to middle class and above. They seem to be aware already that every child is unique, and the name makes them no more or less unique.”

This is the most bonkers thing on this thread. What on Earth do you think working class means? Most of the country are working class. You probbaly are too. Most working class children have normal names like most of the 60 million people in this country do

Op you need to read freak a nomics

It’s not the name it’s the educational level of the parents who would call you that name

And are they more of less likey to value education more of less likey to have books in the home ect

Their is a corellation between names band class I am afraid

The only difference is with in the BME counmity for example any class working or middle would call their son Mohammad

The names are cultural rather than a class thing

I used to foster now adopted if I could even tell you some of the names of the children often named when parents were drunk stoned or having a MH episode

The reverse side of this coin, for teachers, can come when they have their own DC; so many perfectly nice names can be associated indelibly in their minds with one little limb Satan who rejoiced in it. Unusual names aren't as much of an issue as "dare to be different" spelling, with random insertion of punctuation marks, and, funnily, become dated far more rapidly than more traditional ones.

I think my name dates me to within 5 years each way. I never met one child with this name in 30 years of teaching.

The most dating names are the ones inspired by a currently popular singer, actor or soap character.

You can date not only the name, but make a good stab at the age of the mother.

@craxmum I use to know a guy who was given a very stereotypical West Indian sounding Christian name. People where always shocked when they met him because he was a middle class white guy. He had just been named after an elderly relation. Interestingly his dad was a self-made millionaire and obviously thought giving him a very traditional name what help him though life, ignoring the fact it is strongly associated with another culture.

The most startled comment I ever heard, on scanning the new class lists, was, "That's not a name, it's a hand at Scrabble!"

Nah there aren’t that many Kylies or Britneys. Names that date you are names like Sharon, Sandra, Keith. Emma, Charlotte, Anne, Susan.

Is it likely that at least some teachers, who are fallible humans with the same tendency to bias as the rest of us will, having decided that Elizabeths are bright and Chelseas are naughty, that Williams go to university and Callums go to detention, will unconsciously treat children with those names differently?

Yes, but my point was that it may be that they have "decided" that Williams go to university while Callums go to detention because that is actually true? That its not an unfair, unfounded, mean spirited and offensive assumption, its just actually statistically the right call?

How could it be? What would the teachers know about the prevalence of William vs Callum at universities?!

Why wouldn't they know? It's not a bizarre thing to have some knowledge of!

Well the teachers could easily know the names of students who did well in exams and went on to uni........

Not statistically they wouldn’t. It’s hardly data collected by the ONS! They might work off personal experience but that’s exactly the point being made about bias.

Yes it is data they would receive!!!

It's called "Destinations data" . You get to know about all the little Chardonnays and Edwards and find out what happened to them.

that isn't the point! Bias can also be right, whether the person has the actual info or not.

Happy I think you’ve misunderstood what I mean. Knowing what happened to a few Callum’s or Williams they personally taught enough evidence to know there are more Williams at university nationwide.

Yes, but my point was that it may be that they have "decided" that Williams go to university while Callums go to detention because that is actually true? That its not an unfair, unfounded, mean spirited and offensive assumption, its just actually statistically the right call?

It may be true in the main, but there isn’t an evidence base for this. It is extraordinarily unlikely to be universal. It is also difficult to know how much of those outcomes is based externally, and how much is at least partly affected by the way teachers treat them, assuming what their outcomes will be.

And by making assumptions, the teacher is pigeonholing each child and doing a disservice particularly to those children who don’t fit the stereotype, in a way that is disproportionately disadvantageous to the Callums. There is some evidence that when someone is expecting a child to misbehave, they are more likely to see misbehaviour and punish it more often.

Who is a teacher helping by assuming William is bright and Callum is a troublemaker, before he or she has met them?

Knowing what happened to a few Callum’s or Williams they personally taught enough evidence to know there are more Williams at university nationwide.

Well I’d hope anyone teaching my kids was bright enough not to extrapolate the local to the national, personally.

But again, what’s the benefit of their bias and the assumption they’ve made about a Callum (poor old Callum) they’ve only just met?

@glintandglide
Interestingly, I know Sandra and Anne, both under three.
My daughters middle name is Joan (after her father's favourite auntie), I haven't met so far a person younger than 70 with this name (although to me it sounds as stereotypically British as it gets, but then I am from abroad).

@BlueBug45 wasn’t selwin was it

I am black so know exactly what your talking about

I was denied the opportunity to go to medical school, not because i wasn't posh enough, but because i was too thick.

Oh my mum had a 2 year old Sandra. Hope it wasn’t the same one, she was having an awful life.

Cherie Blair, Cherie is a high court judge, total naff name after that "Cherie amor".

I don’t think you need to be black to understand some names have strong stereotypes.. do you?

I try not to judge names, but when I heard some woman (a few years back) shouting at her kid at the bus stop... I couldn’t help my face when she was shouting ‘Primarni’ at him. Why would you do that to a kid? ☹️

@BlueBug45
Well yes, I regret naming her that now to a certain extent. There was an enormous family pressure, both my grandmothers had this name, so I stood no chance :) Not because there is anything wrong with being Indian or Pakistani, of course, but because it does lead to some weird comments.

There’s another layer of bias in the part of the U.K. where I live.

Catholic sounding names.

Just thought I’d add that to the mix