To think that this is a ridiculous thing to say about our kids?

[AsIfIWish]

DH, as a retort - "Well, I think they don't spend enough time [playing games] on the computer."

The kids are 8 and 6. I was saying they shouldn't spend too long playing on the computer (no more than 20 mins twice a week would be my ideal) and DH comes out with this. They use computers regularly at school and have no problems with how to use them. The games they often play under his watch don't hone any skills particularly, nor are they educational or even matching 3, etc.

DH didn't have a computer until he was at least in secondary school and clearly didn't miss out as he is into coding and hardware and things like that, and used to be a software tester. I didn't have a computer until I was 14 and I'm even better at working things out on the computer than he is, so would never assume that to be good at computers you have to start young. Add to that the fact that everyone can use computers these days; it's not a rare skill!

To add insult to injury, DH sits at his computer all day, has no proper job, and is a bit of a layabout...

An interesting perspective on video games Coaching

However I still can't get over the idea that they're not spending enough time playing mindless rubbish...!

They're children - what on earth is wrong with them playing mindless rubbish? You clearly don't spend 100% of your free time on worthy activities else you wouldn't be on Mumsnet on a Thursday afternoon!

The point is - everyone needs down time and 40 minutes/week is nothing for children. Everyone should have at least an hour of downtime a day in my opinion - of course that doesn't have to be spent gaming - it can be running, reading, having a hot bath, playing with the dog, shopping, watching trash TV or whatever else takes your fancy - but relaxing is a GOOD thing. Switching off your brain and just doing something FUN for an hour or so is not the bad thing you're making it out to be.

Your husband might be a bit useless and spend hours on the computer but that doesn't mean you need to stop your kids from messing about playing Minecraft for a couple of hours on a rainy Sunday.

20 minutes twice a week? I see why your DH said that!

@theymademejoin

However, playing games in and of itself is not developing essential computer skills.

Why not? Do you make your kids read books on geopolitical history every night, or do you allow them to read fiction? Does reading fiction help them develop essential reading skills and the ability to critically evaluate the worth of the content they're ingesting?

Many people seem to think that any use of a computer is beneficial and helps develop that skillset. I disagree.

See above. Also, why does all of their PC related activity have to be beneficial and help develop a skill set? When your kids walk out of the front door to play with their friends, do you insist that they follow a pre-planned acceptably educational route that'll meet their development goals?

Seriously do not understand this hysteria that PC's are BAD things for kids to sit in front of. As long as they're given opportunities to do outside things and actively encouraged (or even pushed) to take those opportunities, what's the issue?

It's quite clear your issue is disliking your DH's parenting style and laziness, not how many minutes the kids play computer games

Computer games are the most pointlessly time wasting things of all time. Might as well be mindlessly watching TV

What’s wrong with mindlessly watching TV

Not every activity has to be worthy or enriching. Sometimes it’s ok just to relax and waste time.

How exhausting if you don’t allow yourself that time.

NynaeveSedai - You got me...

Downtime is good. My kids have a good amount of downtime, although their TV consumption is quite low - half an hour before bed, sometimes after school if they're really tired but but masses or too often. If I wasn't here DH would let them watch TV the whole time except when they were playing computer games.

Also, the games they play are 'mindless' simply because DH can't be bothered to show them things/teach them how to play (e.g. minecraft which they love but the two younger ones can't quite get the hang of) so he ends up sticking them on something that they can drive around in but with everything interactive turned off (because it's not age-appropriate) so aside from learning how to steer on a computer (which, as far as I have experienced doesn't relate to RL skills very much at all – mostly it's counter-intuitive) and I suppose a small sense of direction, there's not much going on.

I'd be happy if they were doing something even vaguely more constructive. There's a train simulator game which they sometimes play, but again the proper game requires some teaching so everything gets turned off and they just sit there watching it go down the line and every 10 mins (literally) get to a station and have to stop.

The reason I know all this and have chance to intervene is because a lot of my work is from home and I don't have a proper office space. Today I'm on here because I'm packing for hols and I've had a couple of breaks coz it's just SOOOO HOT!

Also can I just point out that they DON'T get limited to 20 mins each a week, that was just my idea of a good length, which I didn't even mention to DH. I'm a firm believer in getting kids active when possible, but right now they're not at ALL unless I instigate it (when I'm supposed to be working!!).

DeadHerrin I firmly want my kids to be PC literate, and as I think I've said, I'd be happy for them to be doing anything that gets them using their brains for far longer than 20 mins each. I just think an hour at a time of staring at a computer with very little going on is plenty for kids their age. I was a big world of warcraft player (a fan of exploration/flight/RP) until not very many years ago...

Oh and just to clear things up for those who are confused, there are 3 kids but two of them are the same age (twins)

20 mins twice a week?! YABU

DH sits at his computer all day, has no proper job, and is a bit of a layabout...
This is your real problem. Address this first, then worry about the kids screen time.

That's so little! My dd's (7 and 9) probably get about an hour a day, most of which time they spend on collaborative games, building worlds in Minecraft. They also have educational games, Doodlemaths, something called Scribblenauts, which seems fairly pointless, and all the Toca games which are still a huge hit with them. On the xbox there is Slime Rancher and Minecraft, and they lost interest in Skylanders annoyingly quickly given how much the kit costs.

They work hard in school, do their homework, sports, piano and languages. They are allowed down time, just like adults are. They also read independently in bed at night for about an hour. We don't have a tv, but they watch Stampy on youtube (getting ideas fo Minecraft!) and some Netflix (they love A Series of Unfortunate Events).

Not every minute of the day needs to be productive.

DD9 actively wants to be a computer game developer when she grows up (and a bookshop/cafe owner) and is learning to code in Scratch (the MIT developed coding platform) as a direct result of her game playing.

They can't work out Minecraft or other games themselves? Then you really, really need to work on their problem solving skills. DS won a speed house-build Minecraft competition when he was 4, and completed Portal 1 and 2 at 5.

He also taught himself chess at 5 using YouTube and can beat me easily.

They shouldn't need to be shown how to game.

Can they not teach themselves how to play Minecraft?

My parents certainly never showed me how to play computer games - I did the tutorials and figured it all out for myself.

@AsIfIWish

I was a big world of warcraft player (a fan of exploration/flight/RP) until not very many years ago...

Ah, I knew we'd find common ground somewhere! Out of curiosity, why don't you game any more? What did you get out of it in the past and why did that stop happening?

Having said all that, I can understand your frustration at them not being encouraged to properly explore and be limited to basic stuff.

Given that, YANBU thinking it's a ridiculous thing for your DH to say.

If he's not willing to put the time into encouraging them to get the best out of it, then he doesn't get to have a say. If he interferes, he volunteers.

But if you've spent time doing it, then you know the type of thing that's good and the type of thing that isn't - and you've obviously enjoyed gaming in the past, too. So.. how about spending an hour a week with them on the PC and get them to broaden out a bit? Minecraft's a fantastic game that rewards puzzle-solving, planning ahead and teaches them to approach obstacles with the mindset to overcome them. If they're interested in it, why not take it further? Also, it's great fun for adults - you might really enjoy it!

If you do that, then he really doesn't have a leg to stand on, then you'll have a better idea of what they're doing and how much they're getting out of it and when he comes up with any pronouncements in that vein, then you can tell him you're dealing with it and you get to say how long they stay on the PC.

Then tell him to get his arse in gear and take them out to play football or skipping or something? :)

@DeadHerring - Does reading fiction help them develop essential reading skills and the ability to critically evaluate the worth of the content they're ingesting?

Not necessarily. Some people have an interest and natural ability and will go on to develop their reading skills and ability to critically evaluate the content of what they are reading. Others won't and will continue to read in an uncritical, non-judgemental manner. It doesn't make the activity any less enjoyable or valid.

I think you are being deliberately obtuse in your reading of my posts. I have repeatedly said that there is nothing wrong with playing games and that some people will use them as a springboard to develop other skills while others won't.

The issue I have is the notion some people have that all computer use is created equal and will be beneficial to them in future careers etc. That is simply not the case.

I think people are being really defensive. There is no need to play computer games (at least the type the OP is describing) from an educational point of view. They can be fun and a way of unwinding but there are many ways for kids to have fun and unwind and most of them are better for them than computer games. It does sound like OP sets very strict limits on the kids - it would probably be harmless to loosen the reigns a little but not playing computers is definitely not hurting them and based on what her DH is like I can see why she wants to be conservative!

Does reading fiction help them develop essential reading skills and the ability to critically evaluate the worth of the content they're ingesting?

Yes reading fiction generally improves literacy (vocabulary, reading fluency and comprehension.) If you're reading a book you naturally wonder what's going to happen and that leads you to question the content presented so far (you'll be doing this without even realising it).

FWIW I don't think every second of a child's life has to have a clear long term purpose but reading as it happens is both enjoyable and great for kids. That's been firmly established.

minecraft which they love but the two younger ones can't quite get the hang of

Most 6yos + are able to fairly quickly get the hang of Minecraft. I suspect they're not having long enough on the computer to bother to learn. If you've only got 20 minutes you're not going to play something that takes 30 minutes to work out what you're doing, you're putting them in the situation where their best option is the "mindless" games they can pick up in two minutes.
So if you let them have longer you'll probably find that they do more "worthwhile" games.

40 mins a week isn’t enough imo. What else do they do to unwind or have fun at home? Do they watch TV for example?

I let mine have an hour a day and that seems fair to me.

Oh and I have a degree in English literature and teaching English at FE level. My DC read every day too. There’s always a balance in life and I just don’t think 40 minutes a week playing games is enough, not if it’s something they really enjoy as mine do.

when you say 'no proper job' about your husband - what is his job? Or does he have one at all?

What do you think are worthy down time pursuits?

Everything I’m reading here is that your husband is a lazy layabout and you are really uptight about screens. The two may or may not be related.