Should I be firing the cleaner?

[dairymilkisevil]

Hi
I've had the same cleaner for the past 18 months. I think I am nice employer, it's all pretty tidy and my last two cleaners before I moved areas were with me for eight years and seven years respectively and they always had great time keeping and cleaning. I have poor health so can't do it myself.

I have noticed several times that she does not do the hours we agreed but takes the money and leaves early (when I am out).
After a few weeks of this at the start I asked her about it, and she replied that now she knew the house better she was faster and that she was "going to tell me she now needed to do two hours not three hours". I noticed though that she had done this for a few weeks and hadn't mentioned it until I mentioned it.

Now it's happening again, I am often out when she arrives - she has the keys - but she often trips the alarm when she arrives and it's a wireless system that sends me a message with "alarm in kitchen at 12:03". And she takes the money for the whole clean but she's left before I get back ....it's 20-40 mins each time that she isn't doing. I've let it go because the house is cleaned well and I've left money around and it's not been touched but I was getting peeved off because she could always clean the oven or I side of fridge or windows or skirting boards with that 20-40 mins I am paying for but she's going home early.

This week she trips the alarm again at 12:03 and because she changed the day without telling me and I was out, I had to text her to ask if it was her. She eventually replied to say yes it was and she had done three hours. I asked her for the timings and she said she had done 1120-1420. But I know from the alarm settings when she came in and when she reset it: 1203-1340. Just over ninety mins, so I asked her if she was sure of the timings and she said "oh yes , now I think about it, it was actually two hours , 1220-1420. Sorry, my head is all over the place !" But I know she is about two hours. And she would have invoiced me for three hours.

I have had enough now, but how do you sack her? Am I honest to her and tell her why? If so, how?
Also, she has my house keys and I want them back in case she is very pissed off at being fired and cuts a copy! (Which I know is v paranoid and U of me). And I need to get back off holidays to change the alarm code.

But I know getting a decent hardworking honest punctual cleaner is difficult. Sigh. Help!

How is everyone saying she is a good cleaner when she’s lying

She's dishonest and is carrying on even though you've raised this with her. Get rid. When I was cleaning I worked for a number of hours per house, and normally there was a bit of time left when I'd finished. I'd use that for extra jobs, cleaning inside of windows, dragging out furniture to go behind etc. She knows what she's doing.

How do the number of hours and the standard of cleaning compare with your previous cleaner? If you fired her, and got a new cleaner who worked slower but the house looked the same when they had finished, would you be happy?

I'm sure the grown up thing to do would be to have an open honest discussion about it but I'm a bit of a coward when it comes to people I have to trust like cleaners so tbh I'd just sack her and get someone new. The fact that you've politely pulled her up on it a few times already and she hasn't sorted it out make me feel like she'll always be a bit of a chancer.

She is stealing from you - she is being paid to stay for three hours and is not, but is still taking money for time she hasn’t worked. We got rid of our last cleaners for this, and wouldn’t hesitate to do so again.

I love when people say you meed to clarify she’s paid per hour not per job. The cleaner knows it and is taking the piss. Move her hours to coincide with when you’re getting home - she’ll see you checking the alarm log and you can breezily say: oh you got here at x hours then, she won’t be able to truant then.
Or get rid of her but do the above with a new cleaner.

It’s a tough one. My gut instinct would be to sack her as she is dishonest but I know when I have had the same thing with cleaners in the past I have kept them on because it’s easier than looking for a replacement.
But I also know from my own experience that when I very gently and tentatively challenged my cleaner about the quality of her work and questioned whether I was asking her to do too much in the hours I gave her, she immediately stepped up the amount and standard of the work she was doing and stopped knocking off early. Go figure.

If you can bring yourself to do it text her along the lines of ‘ I can see from the alarm records you are getting through the work much quicker nowadays - would you rather we adjust your contract so you only need to stay for the two hours or would you like me to leave some ironing or extra jobs so you still get the full three hours money ?’

My cleaner is amazing. She is the most thorough cleaner I have ever had (in over 30 years of employing cleaners), and works incredibly hard - pulling out furniture, lifting up sofa cushions etc, every single week.

She can be a bit annoying about certain things, and in her manner is a bit tactless, and expects paid holiday. She also often finishes about 20 minutes early. I asked myself would I be happy to pay her a higher hourly rate - and I would. So I overlook the annoying niggles, because to me they are worth it because I know I can count on her.

I don’t mind my cleaner finishing a early but the lying about hours when asked would be a deal breaker.

@extinctspecies

...and expects paid holiday.

Your cleaner - who is, presumably, self-employed - expects YOU to pay for HER holidays? Bl**dy hell, I must have been doing that freelance stuff all wrong.

A self-employed person sets their own hours, and if they choose not to work those hours, they don't get paid for them (and I say this as a former freelancer/sole contractor myself). With great power comes great responsibility.

Out of interest, do you know if she deals with her own tax/NI issues?

If you can bring yourself to do it text her along the lines of ‘ I can see from the alarm records you are getting through the work much quicker nowadays - would you rather we adjust your contract so you only need to stay for the two hours or would you like me to leave some ironing or extra jobs so you still get the full three hours money ?’

I think this is good. It's very firm that she's expected to do one or the other, and is still polite.

Of this is the second time of asking, I would mention that. Be honest with her and say that you can see the hours she has actually doing

ThistleAmore yes, I am also a freelancer/self-employed, I know how it works.

She charges a relatively low hourly rate, I decided as she is so good at her job I was happy to include 2 weeks' paid holiday in that. I would be happy to pay her a higher hourly rate for the hours she does work.

I see it more like a retainer. As long as we're all clear on the arrangement i don't see the problem., even if it's a bit unorthodox. I pay her the same amount by bank transfer every month and I know she pays her taxes & NI.

@extinctspecies

She charges a relatively low hourly rate, I decided as she is so good at her job I was happy to include 2 weeks' paid holiday in that. I would be happy to pay her a higher hourly rate for the hours she does work.

Well, yeah, that seems fair enough. Happy to be corrected!

Thanks for all your advice on this. My gut instinct is that she's had at least £150 out of me that she hasn't actually worked for, I have raised it before and she's doing it again and she blatantly lied this week, so I think I am going to have to get rid. But I will do it the coward's way!

Just to give yourself peace of mind that she won’t nick your keys and then all your worldly possessions just tell her your job patterns have changed and you no longer need her or something

I had similar with mine. I’m usually at work but I’m term time only and was here when she came this week. She finished 30 mins early but said she’d do an extra half hour next time (and I will be here) so will give her some ironing and ‘extras’ to do before we go on hols (and she goes too for a month!).

Def get keys back first, I usually say I’m going away and need them to leave w a neighbour, then say we don’t need a cleaner any more.

The cleaners I know get paid for the job not the hours. So as long as everything that was agreed gets done then they still get the money. Is everything getting done? I wish I could work my arse off and get to leave early. I work my arse off and have to stay the same amount of time as the people who hardly do anything!

The lying isn't ok though.

I'm a cleaner & yes I do leave early on occasion but don't make an habit of it. I am very quick, though my friends a cleaner and it takes her twice as long as me to do the same stuff as me.

Why do some people assume she's Ron you or have a key cut? Just because we're cleaners doesn't mean we're dishonest not skint! I make an ok living.

I was left a very snotty note (truly horrible) accusing me of ruining a very expensive item of furniture (I didn't) I finished the job that day then pushed their keys through when I left. I didn't have any thoughts of revenge, I just knew I couldn't work for these snotty b'stards anymore!

*Rob not Ron

OP knows she’s dishonest because she lied to her face about what hours she’d done.