Heartbroken that I'm being forced to sell mum's house, she worked hard for it and paid her national insurance

[Jkoakham]

And now her savings are running out I will need to sell her house to carry on funding it.

It all seems to very unfair, her house was supposed to be passed to me but instead it's affectively passed to government and private companies.

I thought the dimentia tax had been can cancelled?

I think elderly was defined by the solicitor managing my fathers care, or lack of it, as over 55. Sounds about right to me. It's when things start going wrong health wise for people.

Change the boys to a social worker and a nurse and stick a bewildered family in the middle and you have a fair picture of a lot of DST's.

Yup sounds about right.

The DST is basically an evidence gathering document for the NHS and social care to debate the balance between what is a social care need and what is a healthcare need and therefore who should be funding the care,

Hahahahahaha.

My father is still working, in a job requiring regular international travel, at around 80. He is, I would say, beginning to seem a little elderly.

My elder brother is nearing 55. He is, I would say, beginning to seem a little middle-aged.

I would regard 80 as elderly - but then, the vast majority of my relatives live or have lived to well over 90, and their health has only deteriorated after their 80th birthday.

@cantkeepawayforever

I can only speak from my own experience and the variation in how CCGs award CHC is well documented... but unless the person with dementia is aggressive or usually difficult to support around a specific area (for instance refusing to eat to the point of malnutrition) they rarely would get CHC.

In the end stages the care becomes more manageable really. When you get the the very end stage fast track can happen but generally speaking only with a hospital admission to trigger it or a very pro active and knowledgeable family.

Tess, thank you again for your willingness to satisfy my curiousity. As i say, my parents are beginning their first steps along this 'elderly person' journey, in a poorly-funded area of the country, so it as well to be prepared.

Both are elderly but one is in poor health the other isn't necessarily

I agree but that was my point. You can't put elderly people needing care into a bucket. Not all those 70 year olds skip out of the hospital with no care. Not all of those that have care need it forever.

Surprisingly that is also true of dementia.

I think elderly was defined by the solicitor managing my fathers care, or lack of it, as over 55. Sounds about right to me

Just out of curiosity for what purpose was he defining it?

TessLikeTrees
Indeed and I have know 90+ year olds (and, in fact one 100+) to have hip/knee replacements, rehab and return home with no formal support

Wow, I know 90 plus year old have hip replacements but I'm amazed someone over 100 had one. That's impressive.

@WonkyWay

Indeed, I think of it often when I am feeling like my life is over at thirtymumble.

@headstone Why are you making this a working class v middle class thing?

My DF owns his own home, he grew up on a council estate and is working class. It's not just middle class people that own their own homes.

This is an issue that is affecting a lot of people.

@Want2bSupermum

I am going to bed now but just read back over my posts and just want to point out I wasn't being antagonistic with my "surprisingly ".

It is surprising how well some people with dementia can manage and recover from things like delirium, pneumonia, surgery etc. In fact I often wonder if sometimes dementia is diagnosed a little too cavalierly but that's another thread.

You never tried to get a dementia diagnosis round here then, tess, I am 15 months and counting with my mum who was wandering in her underwear, banging on walls to wake the neighbours and just generally making a nuisance of herself. The hallucinations are particularly spectacular and the CT scan shows all kinds of damage. Still no diagnosis other than ‘yeah, some kind of undiagnosed dementia, I guess’.

I see it as a class issue crazycatgal , your DF is arguably no longer working class, and if he bought the council house at a discount it makes even more sense for the government to get the funds back. Worrying about inheritance is imo a middle class issue. True working class do not have the assets and usually the health at the end of their life to spend a significant time in care homes. The wealthy have always expected to pay rather than the state.

Anyway the issue of who will pay for all this is still the same. Certainly the middle class do not want to pay more taxes so I can’t see any other solution to the problem and not doubt fellow retirees are not keen on having their pensions reduced by paying for other people’s care.
I suspect a dignitas solution will become popular in the end.

I have thought about the issue myself. I have no assets, I’m only a nurse but my parents own three houses. I would do my best to care for them at home maybe with a package of care which is not nearly as expensive. The elderly do not usually spend a long time in care homes. If you can rearrange things for a year to avoid them going there that has to be the best option. On my ward which is stroke we send a lot of patients home with family members looking after them so it is a viable alternative to a £1000 a week nursing home.

I think elderly was defined by the solicitor managing my fathers care, or lack of it, as over 55. Sounds about right to me.

What a bizarre statement. How can 55 possibly be elderly.

How old are you out of interest Want2bsupermum? I’m guessing nowhere near 55...

In the US we have "long term care" insurance that one can buy. And you can't be forced to sell your house IF a spouse still lives in it. Many people donate assets to children (with a five year "look back" period") OR put them in trusts to protect them. I don't understand why people think it's selfish of OP to want to have an inheritance. I want my DD to inherit what I've worked for all my life.

The NHS defines elderly as over 60. It's high time they revised that, given that retirement age is now 66

I really feel for anyone having to sell their homes to pay for care. I do think it is right though.

I am 33 and in the process of saving up to buy my first home. It hasn't been easy and I started late due to illness in my 20s. However, I want an asset to sell when I need social care.

I don't bank on state care being up to much when I need it in 40 years so I am planning now.

It will take me another three years just to get the deposit but that is the plan. No handouts, parents on benefits, mental illness but I am determined to do it.

@lulu12345

It doesnt really matter what you do or dont believe unless you know more than the Health Foundation or the Kings fund?
Look at the last paragraph and you ll find the costs to England to introduce free personal care, currently well under 5billion, with benefits to overall elderly health.

What's with all the not wanting to be associated with being elderly? Why not embrace being elderly? If you can't respect yourself being elderly, how can our society celebrate the elderly?

I agree 55-60 is elderly, it's past middle-aged which is 35-50 as that's roughly the ages when half of your life is over.

@jasjas1973

Au contraries, I think it's important to be sceptical of facts and figures and a quick fag packet working leads me to believe Kings Fund is quantifying something other than fully funded free social care for all pensioners, which is what you seemed to be advocating.

There are 12 million people older than 65 in the UK so a budget of £5 billion would only allow £417 for each one - that won't even get them a week in a care home. Or the other way to look at it is to say £5bn would only pay for about 170,000 pensioners to have a year in a care hole at £30k annual cost. That's less than 2% of all people over 65.

Alarmclock, wait til you get to an age whereby you're classified as "elderly" and see how you feel. I'm not embracing that ageist shit. We don't suddenly cross a line on our 60th birthday, we're the same person we were the day before. There are "elderly" people working full time, running marathons, looking after their grandchildren. I did a skydive to celebrate my 60th birthday. You can stick "elderly" where the sun don't shine.

@ohreallyohreallyoh

What do you need the diagnosis for? I'm asking because sometimes people think they need a diagnosis to access certain things but they don't.

AlarmClocks, you've hit the nail on the head, I think. There is such a stigma associated with being old. Add the devalued nature of care work to that mix and we're dealing with a toxic cocktail. That's without the inequality with regards to who has a property and who does not.

As I said in my PP, I intend to plan for my retirement and am going without things at the age of 33 to save up for my first home. However, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow, my depression could render me unable to work, my partner could leave me, or I could lose my job and struggle to get one that pays the same (let's face it, Brexit is a ticking time bomb). All of these things will mean that I won't be able to own my own home and will be dependent on the state for care. I won't be "feckless" or undeserving. I'll be unlucky!

People become dependent on the state for all kinds of reasons and, should I be lucky enough to have an asset to sell for care, I won't judge them.

My parents were disabled and on benefits when I was growing up, so no handouts from them. I wouldn't change the situation now though, I'm just hoping the savings goal can be met and that the 25 year mortgage I'm looking for remains payable through the years (I've also calculated for interest rate rises).

It's horrible having to think about it and I really do feel for people that have to sell childhood homes and put a much loved parent in a home.

No one wants to have to do that, it must be awful, absolutely emotionally heartrending, even if it's logically the right decision.

Good for you BlueLady! Good for you. I intend to be exactly the same.