IN thinking the fence posts are mine and CF neighbour shouldn’t be touching them?

[sweetkitty]

Was discussing this with DH and I think I’m right, anyway
We stay in a detached house neighbours both sides, it was a new build about 18 years ago we’ve lived here for 12 years neighbours since houses were built.

CF neighbours paid to have posh 6foot fence put around all their back garden, everyone else has builders bog standard fence. The fence posts are on our side yet CF neighbours think they are theirs. The other side of our garden the fence posts are on the other neighbours side so it’s their fence so we don’t have a side fence IYSWIM.

3 years ago we moved our fence to move some of our front garden into the back this involved moving the fence 90 degrees on the post, CF neighbours wouldn’t let us do this as it beings to them, yes the fence does but not the posts in our garden. To save a fuss we moved the fence in a bit.

I’ve hung ropes for washing lines on the posts since we moved in, the other week CF neighbour had a knife and was trying to cut them down. The rope is around the posts not the fence.

I want to put a shed against the fence for our rabbit but I know they will moan. They moaned about DS kicking a ball against the fence even though their son did it for years. I want to put up a second fence now along their bloody fence against the posts.

So is it true that if the fence posts face your garden it’s supposed to be your fence? CF neighbours think the posts and the fence belong to them?

I know it’s just a bloody fence but it the CFs who are making a big deal about it. So when they next have a moan I can say “well the fence maybe yours but the posts belong to us and are in our garden” or not.

I didn’t move any fence back into their boundary, it was all within our boundary and garden, it was nothing really to do with them they just assumed they owned the posts and said no and rather than argue we moved the fence half a metre back into our garden so now we have a half metre of little garden outside the fence.

Actually washing posts are a great idea I’m going to look into them. The rabbit hut is only going beside their precious fence as it’s the best place for it to go. Do I have to allow space for access so they can maintain the fence? The hut won’t touch the fence at all but they will still have a moan I’m sure.

I actually want to put our own fence against it using the posts so DS can kick his ball and do what he wants. He doesn’t thud his ball all day against it, it’s just very occasionally the ball whacks the fence when he misses.

If there is no T on the deeds and no comments about who owns the fences, they are shared upkeep and ownership.

I think that is only true if you are talking about the original fence. In the OP's case, she states that the neighbors paid for the fence in full by themselves.So, even if it's a shared boundary, the neighbor could still place their own fence within their boundary and that will belong solely to them. The OP could also build her own fence within her boundary (so there is a double fence) and that will belong solely to her.

Basically the whole thing is very complicated and not worth paying for surveys and lawyers when the OP could just install a pole for her laundry line and be done with it. 🤷‍♀️

Here's an example from www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/fences.html

In theory it is perfectly possible for one landowner to erect a fence upon a second landowner's land, but for ownership of the fence to remain with the first landowner. In principle, a similar situation occurs when Mr A parks his car on Mr B's land: the car remains Mr A's property.

Imagine a situation in which a pensioner with a limited income has lived in, and owned, the same house for very many years. The wooden fence for which he or she is responsible is rotting away and has become both an eyesore and a danger to the neighbour. The neighbour is a kindly person who is willing to pay to replace the fence, even though he is not responsible for it. What are the implications for his kindness in so doing?

This depends on exactly where he puts the fence and on the subsequent attitudes of himself, his neighbour, and the successors in title of both of them.

There are three possible immediate outcomes:

A. He places the new fence on his side of the old fence, so that the new fence stands on his own land. He then takes down the rotten fence, and he ensures that his elderly neighbour understands that the new fence neither stands upon the pensioner's land nor is it (the new fence) the pensioner's property.
B. He removes the old fence and erects the new fence in exactly the same position as the old fence stood. He makes a gift of the new fence to the pensioner.
C. He removes the old fence and erects the new fence in exactly the same position as the old fence stood. He makes no statement to the pensioner as to where the fence stands or who owns it.
Let us now move the scenario forward to a time when both properties have been sold. The successors in title have encountered confusion as to the exact position of the boundary, but their investigations uncover the facts of what happened when the pensioner's fence was replaced by the kindly neighbour.

If they discover that scenario A is what actually happened then they will surely conclude that the boundary runs along the pensioner's side of the fence that the kindly neighbour had erected on his own land.
If they discover that scenario B is what actually happened then they will surely conclude that the boundary runs along the kindly neighbour's side of the fence that now belongs to the pensioner's successor in title.
If they discover that scenario C is what actually happened then they will have to decide to either:
— honour the original boundary line (on the kindly neighbour's side of the fence), or
— to accept that the fence belongs to the successor in title of the kindly neighbour and that enough time has elapsed for the boundary to have moved by adverse possession to the pensioner's side of the fence.

The posts of dispute! The fence they erected and the posts, gravel is all my garden.

Crossed posts with you, OP.

Do I have to allow space for access so they can maintain the fence?

Yes, I think that would be a good idea. It would also make sure there aren't problems with rot, etc.

Yes, it's fine to put up a barrier so your son's football doesn't hit their fence.

OP neighbour disputes over fences aren't worth it.

Put a post up for your washing line along the boundary.

Only if the neighbour is a fuckwit about it then say something.

You don’t get deeds as such with property anymore it’s just registered with the Land Registry

Thanks, I know it sounds petty but I know if I put anything near the fence they will be out moaning about it.

When we moved the fence it was ridiculous. It was a fence wholly in our garden but the end of which obviously is attached to a post, all we were doing was taking our original fence and moving it 90 degrees so exact same as before they wouldn’t even see it. They said no but that’s when I questioned the ownership of the posts, so they have the right to say no? Looking at it the posts look like they are in our property, are they? I want to hang stuff on the posts and put things along the boundary can I?

I’m not assuming anything, I’m being a nice neighbour in asking can I do this?

The post they were moaning about is now blocked by the mouldy car.

Neither of you sound like you are being reasonable, good neighbours or even particularly adult. Why don’t you talk to them in a calm, controlled way and get agreement by understanding what the concerns are? It’s neighbourly disputes that will reduce the value of the house not a car in a communal space or a fence post.
It’s irrelevant who owns the posts. It doesn’t matter. Arguing about something so petty (on both sides) is ridiculous.
Put up a proper washing line. Tell your son to be considerate enough not to kick a ball against the fence (that would be extremely irritating). Move your rabbit hutch anywhere you want in your garden but make sure it is clean and free from noxious odours and it’s food isn’t encouraging rats.
Start a better relationship with neighbours - it may well pay dividends.

I'm confused. You stay in the house? Is it not your house then as then nothing would belong to you.

I know it’s petty but I know if we do anything with our garden they will be out moaning. If they are concerned about the washing lines come round don’t try to hack them with a knife.

We spent years listening to their son batter balls off the fence and climb into our garden to retrieve balls and we didn’t mind, he was a child. DS isn’t standing for hours thumping a ball against the fence, it’s when he misses and it accidentally hits it.

I think it’s jealousy because it all started when we got the extension built. Now our house is bigger than theirs and they don’t like it. If we stick a new plant in the front garden next week they have 5 plants, if we cut the grass, next day their grass is cut.

I have four DC and just want to enjoy them playing in the garden in peace. Don’t have time to argue about fences. Just when they moan I can say the posts are ours.

You need to look on your deeds. If you don't have a copy of them, the solicitor who arranged the purchase should - or possibly your mortgage company. You can try hm land registry as they often have scanned copies of the deeds. There is no logic to who owns which fence boundary. Check your deeds for the T marks. Doesn't matter who paid for the fence in the past, the T determines legal ownership/responsibility.

Agree with pp though that no matter whose fence it is, kicking a ball against it would be really annoying.

Link to hm land registry hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2018/02/19/title-deeds/

Are you renting OP?

No not renting

He doesn’t kick the ball against the fence, but sometimes when an 8 year old boy is playing football in his garden it he accidentally miskicks it and it hits the fence. Don’t know how he could ball without accidentally hitting it now and again

You need to check where you boundary line is exactly. Measure and see if the fence posts are on it, on their side or on your side.

How do you know the posts are in your garden, they are on your side of the fence but could still be on their property

What is the 'good side of the fence'?

my fence posts are in the neighbours garden but deffo all mine, after the problems ive had the council brought out the deeds to the property and shown me and the neighbour (they have stole some of my garden), the neighbour also tried to paint my house which they assumed was part of theres (they did paint it but as it was proven it was council property everytime it now needs painted they need permission from them and then permission from me to access my garden) my neighbour died although i had no issue with her as she was too unwell it was the family i had problems with. i was reported for throwing fag ends in her garden etc i dont smoke! they even told the painter to paint my downpipe (the pipe that goes from the gutter to my bathroom to the ground, which doesnt even touch there house) mine had all been done a few years previous by the council, when i got my new fence one of them stood outside watching them saying its it just this side mrs x is getting replaced, poor guy was like am really sorry but this isnt her fence its imamums21 and didnt really know what else to say, they stormed off in a huff. i stood gobsmacked that someone that owns the house assumes they are entitled to council maintenance without paying. if next door want to paint the fence they have to ask me first, they keep putting slabs etc against the fence, the weeds are so bad the come straight through, there garden is like a scarp yard has been that way for almost 10 years that i know of.

OP what do you mean when you say you 'moved it 90 degrees' and so it is 'the exact same as before ' - you've either moved the fence a 90 degree angle (why?!) or you haven't moved it so it's the same?

@ProfessorMoody the term 'stay' is colloquial, mostly used in Scotland and some far northern parts of England. Never heard it anywhere else, but it could be I guess (Ireland maybe??). You might say, 'I live in Brighton' but the OP might say 'I 'stay' in Brighton'. Both meaning 'live in'.

You might be asked by your Scottish colleagues/friends, 'Where do you stay?' Your English colleagues/friends would say, 'Where do you live?'

Those fences don’t look all that posh to me...

They sound like loons. Move house

If they have paid for the fence and posts they belong to them. If they have put them on your property, then you need to go to court to dispute it ... Which will cost loads and cause lots of trouble. I know it's annoying but it's really not worth it. You should have tackled the positioning of the fence while it was being put up.

So are they the old fence posts or have they put new ones in? If new ones in, they belong to them and you can't touch them.

Yes I am Scottish

When I say we moved the fence, it was within our garden so the only thing that change was the side of the post it was attached to, again all within our garden. So for the neighbours nothing changed.

Put a new post up and use that

Check your property lines so you know where you stand, but don't rely on this to solve disputes - if what you find changes things that actually tends to escalate the situation.

This might seem OTT but personally I would tend to put up some cctv inside your property - in a subtle way so it can't be seen from next door and doesn't make them feel watched. You often get neighbours, who once they becone obsessed about boundaries and start cutting/damaging things, will then go on to overstep boundaries in ways that cannot be documented or proven, and if the police had just been able to prove it when it started out they would have been able to nip it in the bud sharpish, saving everyone a lot of hassle and a tot for tat dispute that ain't nobody got time for.