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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder if this diet is the best approach for bariatric surgery candidates?

28 replies

sharkirasharkira · 23/07/2018 20:50

I have a close family member who had bariatric surgery a few years ago and has had a whole host of problems, some very serious.

A friend has recently said that she is going to undergo the same surgery and has to go on the milk diet for liver shrinkage, as my family member did.

Just out of curiousity I researched this diet and I feel quite uneasy about it because it essentially suggests that you can have as much sweetener filled crap as you like, as long as it doesn’t contain any calories. So sugar free squashes, jellies, yogurts, diet sodas, etc.

Aibu to think that encouraging people who have weight issues to consume unlimited amounts of sugary tasting crap isn’t actually healthy in the long term? Even if it doesn’t contain calories, it still gets you into the habit of consuming unchecked amounts of sweet, sugary tasting things. Your brain doesn’t know the difference between sugary tasting and calorie free stuff, and real sugar. Wouldn’t it be better to educate people about eating healthy, natural food in moderation and limiting portion sizes to ensure that they are able to stick to healthy choices in the future?

I understand the need for these diets to shrink the liver prior to surgery but, from what I understand, the main function of this diet is to severely limit calories in order to put the body into the stage where is it is burning its stored glycogen. So in theory, couldn’t this be acheived by just sticking to a healthy (albeit very low calorie) diet, rather than just lots of milk with added sugar free milkshake syrup and lots of Diet Coke?

My family member had terrible issues because, essentially, she tried to keep eating the exact same way she had for years, albeit she was physically unable due to the surgery.

Aibu? I am only asking because I care about my friend and I don’t want her to suffer like my family member did. I’m also worried about how she is going to cope at work if she is essentially starving herself (fainting, dizziness, etc). If anyone can educate me further I would really appreciate it!

OP posts:
welshweasel · 23/07/2018 20:53

Its basically a very low calorie and low fat diet which, as you say, helps shrink the liver to enable the surgery to take place. It’s a pretty awful diet to do for two weeks but it does what we need it to do very quickly. It’s not designed to teach people how to lose weight in a sustainable manner - anyone having bariatric surgery will have already been through SW, WW, low carb, etc etc.

Gemini69 · 23/07/2018 20:56

the pre-op diet softens and detoxes the liver so that it can be handled and moved during surgery.

drivingmisspotty · 23/07/2018 20:57

I don’t know anything medical about it but also have a friend who has had the surgery. In order to be funded in the nhs he had to go through a couple of years of medical guidance/counselling to try and get him to lose the weight through diet. He almost had to prove he couldn’t get healthy through diet alone. So I imagine this diet is not really meant to be sustainable. It just does the job short term and hopefully the boost of the surgery helps the person adjust their diet.

If someone has got to the point where they need the surgery I am sure they have a whole long history of eating badly, being encouraged to eat sweeteners for a few weeks won’t make much difference.

Original poster
sharkirasharkira · 23/07/2018 21:25

I think the trouble is that, as stated, a lot of people have been through other diets and food plans, which would probably actively encourage people to consume large amounts of ‘diet’, sweet tasting things that have few or zero calories. This obviously has not worked if they next step is surgery so it makes sense to me that actually re-training the individual to exercise portion control of nutrient rich, ‘real’ food is better in the long term. It isn’t just about what happens before, actually what happens after is much more important because it’s the rest of their lives!

There’s just something about the advice that is essentially ‘eat as much as you like, as long as it’s sugar free’ that makes me really uncomfortable. Especially since people who have had the surgery have to take vitamin supplements for life. Sugar free does not = healthy, in fact the very opposite sometimes.

My family member could not stop eating bread, even though it made her sick. She still ate too much (larger portions than she needed). She didn’t have much in the way of pre-op councilling or advice and I really think this is where the problems came in. She did the milk diet for pre op but, post op, she really didn’t know what she should be eating.

OP posts:
Gemini69 · 23/07/2018 21:25

the diet has a very short term purpose.... 2 weeks at the most...

it's purpose is to soften and detox the liver so it is pliable to be handled during surgery. It's position in the body means it needs to be moved temporarily upward for the surgery to be performed.

A surgeon will know immediately if a candidate has not stuck strictly to his pre-op diet and may/can stop surgery, during the procedure, in theatre.

Original poster
sharkirasharkira · 23/07/2018 21:28

I know why the diet is necessary, that makes sense. I just don’t see why it has to be specifically milk + sugar free stuff, rather than just a very low calorie diet that makes the body burn its glycogen stores (ie, low carb and low fat).

The main reason I have found so far is:

It’s easier for people to stick to, as in, they know exaclty what they can and can’t eat. That’s it.

OP posts:
Gemini69 · 23/07/2018 21:29

She did the milk diet for pre op but, post op, she really didn’t know what she should be eating

all she should have been eating is, water milk and yoghurt, as much as she needs to feel less hungry. It's hard and after the two weeks she will never look at yoghurt again but she needed to stick to this...

no other food should have been eaten, during the pre-op phase.

Original poster
sharkirasharkira · 23/07/2018 21:31

She did that, and then followed the short term post op diet. But beyond that? If you haven’t reeducated someone to make better choices then after the very restrictive diet period is over, they are a bit adrift.

OP posts:
Gemini69 · 23/07/2018 21:32

www.wlsinfo.org.uk/

the above website is the Holy Grail of advise regarding Post Op support.

Please tell you Family Member to get onto that Website/Forums.. it has a global network of people who have had and are having this surgery. it's information is the most informative they will find.

it's support network is fantastic ..

good luck to your Family Member Flowers

Vanillamanilla1 · 23/07/2018 21:36

Do you actually know anything about bariatric surgery,
I had to go on the liver shrinkage diet for a gastric sleeve for 28 days and it's fucking hard .. I mean REALLY hard
It's to shrink the liver in order to get to everything the surgeons need to get to
I had high cholesterol, diabetes, I was ill
I have NO diabeties now and my cholesterol is within normal range
I could have 4 pints of semi skimmed milk, 2 sugar free jellies ( ready made ) . OR 2 sachets made up myself ,
1 oxo cube or bovril
That's it !! I don't quite know the science behind it but it worked and my surgeon said he knows if I have cheated as he's closed people up before for eating proper food or deviating away from the strict diet
No it's not sustainable but it worked
What's the actual problem
I was sick, I'm not now , 28 days out of my not reaching 50 ... I don't understand what the problem is
My diet was extremely poor , it's not now

NorthernLurker · 23/07/2018 21:36

You really don't know what you're talking about op. The 'normal' healthy eating rules do not apply in this situation.

NewYearNewMe18 · 23/07/2018 21:38

I always find the internet amazing TBH. A whole plethora of people without medical qualifications, loftily espousing advice.

Odd diet you've described, DH had surgery and he was only allowed water and clear soup leading up to surgery.

Vanillamanilla1 · 23/07/2018 21:42

If I could eat " low calorie " don't you think I'd have done so by now .. I've tried it all that's the point, surgery is last resort

FissionChips · 23/07/2018 21:42

What a stupid post. The diet is to shrink the liver, not teach healthy eating.

Gemini69 · 23/07/2018 21:43

A whole plethora of people without medical qualifications, loftily espousing advice

you assume.. they have no medical qualifications...

SquishySquirmy · 23/07/2018 21:44

Well it's also not normally "healthy" to cut into someone and handle their internal organs.
But there are obviously times when it is needed to improve someone's health. I suppose a short term, drastic diet to achieve a specific medical aim is the same.

Gemini69 · 23/07/2018 21:46

Vanillamanilla1

well done .. it's not easy.. and sounds like you had great success... Flowers

NewYearNewMe18 · 23/07/2018 21:46

you assume.. they have no medical qualifications...

They wouldn't be pratting on with twaddle if they did Grin

Gemini69 · 23/07/2018 21:47

They wouldn't be pratting on with twaddle if they did

Oh I agree...

Lougle · 23/07/2018 21:47

The diet needs to be very low calorie, low fat, low fibre and low carbohydrate, which is really difficult to achieve if a patient is eating any food. By being very prescriptive in what they can ea drink, there is no room for 'misunderstanding' between that patient and the surgeon. The surgeon can tell whether the diet had been adhered to - if the liver is stiff and non-compliant, the patient hasn't adhered to the diet. The diet reduces surgery time by up to 6 minutes, according to some papers, which doesn't sound much, but that's a huge benefit in terms of reduction in anesthetic, etc., and there is a reduced risk of liver damage.

Vanillamanilla1 · 23/07/2018 22:00

Thank you Gemini
Yes 8 stone down in 11 months.

Gemini69 · 23/07/2018 22:03

that's phenomenal.. congratulations.. you're doing so well Flowers

Darkestnight · 23/07/2018 22:12

Its a liver shrinking diet at that is all it is OP not designed for weight loss but you do lose weight on it but mainly water.

Original poster
sharkirasharkira · 23/07/2018 22:13

Fwiw I’m not suggesting that I know better than medical professionals. I’m really not. I’m just trying to understand the theory behind it because I have seen the problems that can come with the surgery, first hand. My family member nearly died because of it and the only thing that saved her was having her band removed. That is not something I would wish on anyone.

I’m not debating the wisdom of having the op, that is completely the choice of the individual who is having it done and it is their choice. I only want to help!

OP posts:
Gemini69 · 24/07/2018 19:53

the Website I suggested will absolutely help your Family Member find her own direction Flowers