CF garden thief!

[MummytoCSJH]

I did a house swap in November. When arranging it through our housing association we agreed that previous tenants would take out the shed and decking and that they would leave various things in the house and garden (dining table, cooker and wooden planters for me to put my trees and flowers in) and fix several doors which had holes in. In return I removed decking in my garden and left my cooker in as well as a few wardrobes which they wanted to keep and I would've otherwise gotten rid of. On moving day they took everything they were meant to leave and didnt remove the decking from the garden. They hadn't fixed any doors and left old items in the garden and loft including dirty nappies and a fryer filled with old oil. So there is 'bad blood' there, though I didn't stress it, I just left it as not to cause an argument. I wasn't happy but there wasn't much I could do, so removed decking at cost to myself and my gardens are now lovely. Today my next door neighbour has informed/warned me that previous tenant came whilst I was out on Friday and tried to rip my flowers up and take the planter from in my front garden below my front window. She couldn't take it because I've since bolted it to the wall, but texted neighbour this morning saying that if she comes and unbolts it can she store it in their garden until she can come and collect it. My front garden isnt fenced off, it goes straight onto a path - but there's clearly a lawn there and it's still my garden. Maybe she thought I wouldn't notice, maybe she thought it belongs to her so she can do what she wants? It is my property! I'm completely dumbfounded.. imagine if somebody came into my back garden and just started taking my son's toys? I want to text her and say if she tries to remove property from my garden I'll call the police! But have been advised against it in case I provoke anything. AIBU to be fuming?!

I don't really understand, are these things she left behind or new things you have put in?

Things she left behind (in agreement that she didn't want them and I did) but I have fixed and done up and are now a main feature of my garden.

Can you get cctv

Is it in writing !? I'd be inclined to call the HA tomorrow and say what she's been doing and what to do

Unbolt it and fix it to your back garden where she can't see it.

Dear CF,

You will recall that, in November last year when the move was effected, a reciprocal arrangement was put in place whereby you agreed to do X, Y and Z in terms of maintenance of the property, and leave in the garden X, Y and Z to enhance its appeal: I made a similar undertaking in respect of my then-property. It surely cannot have escaped you that, while I adhered to my side of the deal, you utterly failed to do so, neglecting as you did to perform essential maintenance X, Y and Z; to leave the garden furniture in situ; to remove from the property sundry unwanted items and, particularly delightfully, biological waste. I elected not to make an issue of it at the time, but my dismay when Mrs Miggins reported that on Friday you had gained entry to my garden and attempted to steal flowers and a planter, is acute. Please note that I shall treat any further attempts to enter my garden as trespass; and attempts to remove anything from my garden as theft, as contact the police without further recourse to you.

It’s been a slice, you utter c*. See you never,

MummytoCSJH

Hmm. If it was a week or so after moving I could kind of understand but she's just a complete CF!

We recently had a CF neighbour parking her bins in our garden. A politely worded note later and she's backed off and behaved herself.

We imagined all sorts of scenarios involving CCTV and the like but thought it was worth just trying this. I would text her but keep it polite. Something along the lines of 'a neighbour told me that she thought she saw someone fitting your description pulling up plants from my front garden, I'm sure it wasn't you as you don't live here any more but just thought I'd question it as it sounds completely ridiculous' very tongue in cheek.

If she kicks off after this then you won't be seen as the unreasonable one.

Not sure about the cctv, as its summer holidays now I'll be in most days if she decides to come back. Not in writing with the HA but it is in texts regarding the swap. I don't really want it in my back garden (where it was originally), doesn't fit anywhere now I've done my garden out and it looks nice in the front. Its definitely an option but I just feel like why should I have to move it so she doesn't steal it?

Agree was it in writing that this was agreed?

I think they are considered chattels and as such she has a legal claim on them if they were hers, unless you have a written agreement ownership passes to you.

Kitty

CF! I would contact the HA and ask them to contact her and let her know that you will call the police. Can you ask your neighbor to message her back saying you are not happy that she tried to steal fro you and also let her know that you will call the police if she tries it again?

Bluntness oh, really? Odd. If she does have legal claim to them and comes and asks me for them I'll be happy to oblige. It is very annoying that she's been in my garden knowing I wasn't in and tried to just take them, ruining my flowers in the process.

Yes; it’s a little-known Henrician law that allows you to return to a property you quit nine months previously, and take stuff from the garden. It also matters not one whit that you have to unbolt it from the wall - that’s fine. Be careful not to ask the now-owner, but do make sure it’s all carried by the last Sunday before Lammas . . . 😒

I don't think she can walk in an take them, clearly not, but yes, my understanding from my daughter, who has just finished her law degree, as I asked a similar question about something on my property is the original owner can have a legal claim unless they've passed title to you. It's not legally automatically yours unless your rental contract or house purchase contract says anything left on the property is yours or she has passed title to you via other means,

A legal claim doesn't mean walk in and take them though.

However you're saying she did, albeit via text, pass ownership to you. And she can't just walk in and take them, and clearly isn't going to sue you.

I think your issue is if she comes back with bolt cutters and attempts to just take it.

Ah, well - if it’s still fresh in her mind. My own law degree was completed almost fifteen years ago. And my masters, twelve. I did then go to the College of Law in Bloomsbury and practice for a few years, though . . .

Everyone who is talking about law relating to chattels, fixtures and fittings, etc - this is a housing association property therefore it's not the case that the OP has bought the property from the previous tenant. So the stuff about title is not relevant. If there was an agreement between OP and previous tenant about exchange of various items, then this would be a separate contract unrelated to anything to do with the property title. It needn't be in writing as contracts can be oral or part written and part oral.

The previous tenant is trespassing if she enters the property and she is committing theft and breach of contract if the tries to remove something that it was agreed would be left by her in the property for the OP, in exchange for the OP giving her items. She may also be engaging in harassment if she carries on trying to enter the property and take the item/s without permission.

Thanks for clearing it up

Even damaging plants is criminal damage. It is certainly anti-social behaviour, as defined by HA's and they would have words with her about it.

It doesn't matter what the law says, you still have tenancy rules. Technically you can remove your goods from a past address, but you must do so without committing any other unlawful acts.

OP, you need to put a note through her door and put a stop to this. You can contact the HA because of the damage.

X post with Lucky.

I would get a dashcam and position this inside your front window in clear view of the planters or a fake (or real if you can afford it) camera on the outside of the property pointed very clearly at the planters and in full sight.
Also, buy your neighbours some flowers (both sides if you have them...and opposite maybe!) Or some chocolates and a note explaining what is going on, make sure to thank the neighbour who told you. Keep them onside! And finally, if you can, grease up the bolts on the planters. Like really grease them up (think Home Alone) so even if she does try to remove them, she won't be able to!

Said previous tenant hasn't been back, but she did request me on Facebook this morning. I didn't accept. Weird

Some years ago I read of a house sale, nice ancient pile with appropriately ancient garden. The seller took up the old York stone paving and took it away with her. Garden contents have particular rules when buying or selling a house. Back came the path, under protest, to be reinstated where it had lain since the 1500s.

Personally I would accept her and ask her if she has encountered the house ghost yet??
My dd had fun with her previous house cf new tenant!

Any gifting arrangements between mutual exchange partners are outside the interest of the HA and they are extremely unlikely to get involved. Nor is it ASB though it is definitely CFery

Stealing from another tenant is definitely ASB.