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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Do you have to be cut throat to get ahead at work?

21 replies

Hope34 · 21/07/2018 19:13

Hello

My boss sat me down 2 days ago for a chat. Not planned, an impromptu one. I know he meant well, but gor me to get to the next stage of my professional training he told me the other trainees are ‘dog eat dog’.

He said he isn’t asking me to change my personality( too late for that I am 45!), but in summary I need to do more extra out of hours stuff for my CV and be more cut throat.....

OP posts:

ShutUpBaz · 21/07/2018 19:34

Depends on your job I think. In my industry (licensed catering) yes, definately. Its a male dominated environment and as a female I have to take no prisoners and there is a certain amount of people-trampling involved. Not in a malicious sense, but I have to fight harder than men to prove myself. Better prospects and recognised ambition means I have achieved getting on the training courses I deserve, which means a better quality of life for my family.

Digestive28 · 21/07/2018 19:39

Depends on job but my experience is you progress quicker if you are cut throat but actually last longer even though it takes longer to progress (probably also personally more sustainable) if you aren’t

DinoGreen · 21/07/2018 19:48

What industry are you in? I'm a lawyer and yes I think you do but it depends exactly what you mean by cut throat. Confident, not afraid to shout about yourself and push for pay rises and promotions - yes. You don't have to be a cow about it though and screw others over in the process.

Original poster

Hope34 · 21/07/2018 19:48

Thank you for that.

I am a doctor and trying to get into speciality training so I can be a consultant and yes like PP it will mean I can provide better for my kids....I need to give myself a kick

OP posts:

Tistheseason17 · 21/07/2018 20:48

Confident, direct? Yes

Nasty and mean putting others down? NO

StewardsEnquiry · 21/07/2018 20:55

What speciality?

RabbitsAreTasty · 21/07/2018 20:55

Being confident, yes.

Talking yourself up, yes.

Being seen as the expert in your field using conferences, papers, teaching, volunteering, mentoring, whatever is appropriate in your area. Yes.

What do you need to do to have the same skills, knowledge and standing as a person two steps ahead of you whose job you'd like to have one day? Build to that in your behaviours.

Being a cow. No. That doesn't help in the end.

Original poster

Hope34 · 21/07/2018 23:18

Thank you all...

I have just last month finished a post grad diploma in the speciality. This weekend doing literature search and reading for case study and also completing ethics approval forms for research.

Medicine was my third degree and that diploma is also my third, I have more qualifications than my colleagues however they seem to pick on what I don’t have ! Anyway I shall plough on ....
I am based in Ireland and even though I went to two of the top UK universities, I may has well have studied in Outer Mongolia

Sorry for the winge just feel I am trudging through cement and working my socks off.

2 of my previous colleagues here were ambitious but in a nasty way ...it seems to be want is accepted...

So no more Mr Nice Guy😉

OP posts:

blueshoes · 21/07/2018 23:42

If you live by the sword, be prepared to die by the sword. By that, I mean sabotaging others to get ahead.

It is not cut throat to fight your corner, advance your department over another, ask for more resources/payrise/promotion - that's just business.

grumpy4squash · 22/07/2018 00:03

'cut-throat' implies trampling over other people or being highly competitive.

I don't think that is necessary to progress, however being savvy really helps. That means understanding what gets people the opportunities they want and using it to your advantage. Networking, discussions, that sort of thing. Don't assume that qualifications are all, because lots of folk have them and not everyone gets a chance to move forward.

JustHereForThePooStories · 22/07/2018 00:15

I don’t agree with “cut throat”. The idea that you can only get to the top by stepping on others is awful.

I’m in a business profession, senior, very competitive environment. I’ve advanced through networking and working very collaboratively on projects that are outside of my specialism but contribute a lot to the company (and increase my overall knowledge and visibility/profile). I also do a lot of CPD, and ensure that I’m managing my team very well so I’m benefitted from leading a very high-performing team, members of which have also built their networks/profile.

Do you have a mentor/coach? Would highly recommend, especially for women.

Rebecca36 · 22/07/2018 01:55

I would not like to work in a job where I had to be 'cut throat' to get on but it's good to be as confident and innovative as you can.

sadiekate · 22/07/2018 03:03

I wouldn't want to be treated by a doctor who was cut-throat. In more ways than one.
It's supposed to be a caring profession.

SarahH12 · 22/07/2018 03:09

In my job you absolutely do need to be cut throat to progress. We are expected to perform at 2 levels above our current pay grade and if not we run the risk of disciplinary action

PortSouth · 22/07/2018 03:46

My ex boss was cut throat and for a while management gave her license to do so. However, once she over reached her remit and started to damage the department and it's reputation they got rid of her. People forget that they are dispensable and that management will turn on them eventually.

SerenDippitty · 22/07/2018 05:16

In my job you absolutely do need to be cut throat to progress. We are expected to perform at 2 levels above our current pay grade and if not we run the risk of disciplinary action sad

This sounds like exploitation to me!

Mondkind · 22/07/2018 07:24

It depends on your long-term plan (if you have one). Being ambitious, working more than others around you, knowing how to advertise yourself and doing a little extra are always going to get you noticed and more likely to result in promotion.

In my field, the cut-throat people, who brown-nose management and screw over peers and subordinates may climb the greasy pole fairly quickly at first, but get stuck at stages where people management requires more than just 'do what I say or else'. Because that sort of attitude only gets them to do the minimum they can get away with (not a good thing where I work) and screw you over in the end.

We work with people a lot and you definitely catch more flies with honey, so those who look out for others last a lot longer.

NemoRocksMyWorld · 22/07/2018 07:51

I am a doctor. I'm in training rather than a speciality doctor so it is a bit easier! I don't think you have to be cut throat but you do need to stand up for yourself. Like last time I did an audit, I was doing it with two others. I ended up doing the audit permission forms, writing the proforma and auditing three sites (they audited one each, which I had to partially redo). Then I did all the data analysis. When it was ready, I booked into an audit meeting I could do and did the presentation. They were not present. Previously I might have worked around so we could all present together. I took the credit that I deserved. I may submit for a poster presentation and I won't put their names on it. I don't think that is cut throat or mean or nasty, they can still put it on their e portfolio ......but it is making sure you take the credit you are owed.

Polarbearflavour · 22/07/2018 09:32

I’m really glad that I’m “just” in a glorified administrative job and don’t need to be cut throat. I’m not ambitious, I have a nice life and house etc and a decent salary but to me a job is just a job!

I worked someone once where a couple of personal assistants really wanted to step up into the executive assistant to the CEO role. I could not have cared less and ignored their bitchiness!

Doccc · 22/07/2018 09:33

what Speciality is it? ENT?

Sounds like odd advice - in what ways are you supposed to be dog-eat-dog? I’m a consultant anaesthetist btw - i think you need to be careful about what projects etc you undertake - ie ones that are likely to lead to a publication credit/or demonstrable improvement in service/quality ie don’t get lumbered with a consultants’ pet project that’s going nowhere. but I’m pretty sure “screwing over your fellow trainees” is not in gmc’s “duties of a doctor”. Working with colleagues is and working collaboratively with others on projects is generally looked on quite favourably

Original poster

Hope34 · 22/07/2018 10:31

Hello all
Thank you for your great words of advice
I studied and did foundation and core training in UK, then moved back to Ireland for husbands job( not a medic)

I am used to the UK, and the GMC ( I am still registered as well as with Irish council)

I struggled to get into the system here..finally in the speciality I want to do which I love, and I have great patients!

E portfolio is only here in name, they use the nhs one but not to the same extent. No foundation training here just one year(intern) and no assessment, audits etc.
( I had to explain duty of Candor to another registrar last week!)

I agree with previous comment, I wouldn’t want to be treated by cut throat doc either.

It’s not ENT, can’t say as it’s a small speciality here, and I will get outed...

Doc, yes I am weary of pet projects
I am going to work on a case study for one of my speciality journals. Applications for training open in November and interviews in March.... I am also going to arrange an osce style teaching g session for undergrads in September. I have done a teaching course and medical leadership and management course in London last year( these don’t seem to matter in Ireland)

I suppose bottom line I wish I could go back to the UK but not possible, I now see why doctors are liked in the U.K. and not in Ireland by the public

OP posts:

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