Can he charge for this?

[savagebaggagemaster]

I'd really like to consult the hive mind of the great and good on here. I'll try to make it quick!
A gardener came to look at our jungle. He visited 3 times (his choice - in fact, after contacting him initially, we had to chase him up 3 weeks later to see if he actually wanted to look at the garden!) He did an initial, 'what are you thinking of having done?' visit, a second one to measure up and a third to present his ideas and his eye watering quote. He chose to come over - he could have simply emailed.
Ideas were presented to us drawn with felt tip on a notepad. Quote was outrageously expensive for what we wanted, so emailed afterwards to decline, not having agreed to anything at any point. It may be important to note that at no point whatsoever did he say upfront that he would charge for visiting, suggesting ideas, etc.
He has just sent us a bill for £200 for his time and design idea. (Based on our ideas I hasten to add!) he included travelling time (he lives 5 minutes away!)
Am I right in thinking that he he is being a CF and does not have a legal leg to stand on? We haven't answered his email and are wondering if it's best to ignore?

Wtaf? No of course don’t pay

I could then walk up to you in town. Tell you I think you would look good in red and in maxi dresses then hand you a ‘style consultation invoice’ for £20.

A contract consists of offer, conideration and acceptance.

You never accepted so there is no contract.

Haha so shiny, yes that does highlight how crazy it is. It was odd that he proposed ideas, scribbled on a sheet of paper, then claimed he had done 8 hours work which he sent to us on a proper invoice! He's trying it on, isn't he?

Deffo don't pay - he can't unilaterally impose obligations on you like that and he can only charge for site visits if he made it clear in advance that he was going to, and you agreed to that. What a CF!!

This should have been discussed and agreed when you first met. It’s often the case that architects, interior designers and garden designers will charge an hourly rate for concept designs before going ahead with detailed design. He’s not a CF - he’s spent time on your garden, measuringbit, drawing up designs and costing them.

And £200 sounds quite reasonable for that.

Of course he can't charge you. Email back saying he never said he would charge for a quote and you will not be paying. He's just trying his luck.

@AgentProvocateur - the point is that it should have been discussed & agreed up front

Yes, as I said it my post. I’m not saying the OP should pay - just that it’s regular practice and he’s not necessarily a CF, trying it on.

Send him an invoice in return for your time, design ideas, wear and tear etc etc. Either make it £200.01 or something mad like £700 and explain you'll happily deduct his invoice from yours. No legal leg to stand on for him.

It may be normal practice, but I've had at least six people in the past looking at and working on our garden and not a single one of them has asked for money for visiting or providing ideas, including those who didn't get the work. The same goes for our conservatory when we had 3 different companies come out to give us quotes and some of them spent a considerable amount of time with us going over details and providing proper detailed scaled drawings.

Sabbath I am very tempted - but would that make me a CF?

A consultation fee is normal and completely reasonable.... however, the client must be aware of and agree to the fee before anything gets started.

He didn’t tell you his fee, you didn’t agree a fee, so you don’t need to pay. I’m a self employed Jeweller, so I usually side with the individual when it comes to charging for concept design etc, but in this case he has made an error by not giving you his terms and conditions prior to beginning work. You don’t need to pay.

Don't pay!

I had a guy come and pressure wash and seal our vast area of decking.He charged twice as much for the sealant as you can buy it on line. When I queried this he told me I had no rith to query his "business model." CF !!!

Nope - providing he never mentioned any charge and providing you never agreed.

I understand why he wants to charge (but that's another matter).

Don't pay. As PP said you have no contract so you are not under any obligations. If he wanted a design fee he should have asked for one before doing it.

I had issues with my partners motorbike while he was working away and we got in touch with a local mechanic who came round to look at it. Spent an hour at my house but 80% of that time was on the phone to other customers. Told me what he thought was wrong with it and how much it would cost to fix. I said I need to speak to dp what do I owe you for today to which he said nothing. Decided to sell the bike as not worth getting it fixed so when I declined the work he tried to charge me £80 for his time. I didn't pay as I'd offered to cover his time (would not have paid that much as he did feck all) but he said no and no terms that I would pay for that time if the work was not carried out. He sent me several letters and phone calls but I blocked his number and thankfully was moving anyway.
Not the same but still a CF.

Yes and no savage, a friendly note at the bottom of the invoice explaining how as no fees or costs were agreed up front you deem his bill as a massive cf'ery and feel valid in charging him in return.

Would honestly love to see it play out on judge rinder .

On a side note, I'm a head chef and do a lot of costings/quotes for various functions. Often at the last minute "incredibly urgent", 2 hours of unpaid overtime later. Then 2 weeks after we get told their not interested. Is rubbish but how it goes some times.

Wow, sounds like a scam “designing gardens” quote a crazy amount of money to guarantee he doesn’t get the actual job and charge £200. Do a few of them a week and he’s laughing. Easy money!

Unless you actually asked him to draw up and provide an garden design plan for you, then he's taking the mickey. Don't pay.
Garden designers aren't usually gardeners - they don't do the work themselves. You pay for the design work. He's seriously trying it on.

Legally there were no terms and conditions to a contract (if one existed) and a court will not infer t n cs. So no.

You’re not in Northamptonshire area are you? Sounds similar to our experience!

I would close the loop and avoid him trying to bring it further by sending him a letter to be signed for that states as you put above - at no time were charges for visiting or drawing up plans discussed or accepted and the invoice should be revoked. If he really is a CF he may get a legal letter or small claims court or other. For peace of mind I would send the letter setting out your position so your right are protected no matter what he might try,

I am going to buck the trend here and say it is reasonable to pay someone for developing a plan for you. There is a massive difference between coming over and hypothetically talking through what you would like (ie: i would do a patio here, and maybe some bushes here), and measuring up and presenting you with a detailed landscape architecture plan.

Did you ask for a presented a written plan? Because a lot of people have good landscape architects draw plans, and then go somewhere else to have it done cheaper. I don't blame the industry for doing this now.

He should have let you know that written plans come at a cost, absolutely. But I don't think he is being a CF to expect to be paid for his work.

Mishappening had a guy come and pressure wash and seal our vast area ofdecking. You should never pressure wash decking. Although it looks nice immediately after, what happens with the pressure wash is small fibers of the wood are jetted out during the process damaging it and after a couple of years it will look very worn. Same with teak furniture. Use a very soft brush and soap.