To feel unhappy about school giving ‘boys’ and ‘girls’ prizes

[olympicsrock]

A friend posted a proud mum picture yesterday of her son and daughter who attend a mixed secondary school. They have each won school prizes. Initially I thought great but then read that they were the ‘Biology prize for Year X girl’ , ‘French prize for year X Boy’ and ‘ overall academic achievement for year X boy’. I could understand if these were sports prizes but why do they have to have equal numbers of prizes won by girls and boys? Doesn’t this downplay the achievements? I felt very uncomfortable about this. Do others?

*Well, they wouldn't be handing out prizes for best black child for biology, best FE Asian child for maths, best white child for geography, best Buddhist child for history, best Jewish child for English or whatever.

Probably because with so many races in schools there'd be too many categories, but there are only two sexes so it's much more do-able*

So if there were only two or three races in a given school, that would be ok?

Gender has zero impact on academic ability. It's all social conditioning. Stop creating these patriarchal structures and narrative.

This irritates me. As a woman I would not want an award (or a job) because I am female. If there is another candidate better then me, they should get it. My daughter won ‘Tallest Sunflower. Girls.’ trophy at nursery this week!

Gender has zero impact on academic ability
Gender is a social construct

It's all social conditioning
Well, yeah. See above.

Stop creating these patriarchal structures and narrative
These are also social constructs and conditioning.

Not sure what your point is.

@tyredmama

Are you so 'tyred' you struggle to understand the basic concept of girls / women outperforming boys / men academically right through tertiary education and into graduate careers?

Do you reply purely in soundbites blaming the patriarchy?

"Gender has zero impact on academic ability. It's all social conditioning."

Sex does though. Are you going to prove your assertion?

I do see where you're coming from but I think there are justifications. It has been shown in many studies that boys tend to perform less well than girls in academic studies. We obviously need to get to the root of that issue and fix the problem, but in the meantime this levels the playing field for boys so that they have a reasonable chance of winning prizes. It's motivating for them and accounts for the fact that our schools are not currently set up in a way which helps boys to flourish to the best of their ability.

But that said, I do appreciate your position bedside they should be competing as equals. But they aren't at present, and we haven't solved that problem yet.

@gunnyBear @Pressuredr0p

I'm 'Tyred' of watching people separate boys and girls as if the cis gender roles you're born with have a bearing on academic ability. Testosterone Rex is a great read if you're new to this subject.

Schools don't need to "double the number of prizes"

The best at the subject should be the one getting the prize, it doesn't matter what category they fall into. I also think schools should be rewarding those that make the most effort, not just those that are top (because some children will always be more academic than others).

My children's school is very imbalanced, probably 3:1 boys:girls, but my DD has won the DT (CDT not food tech) prize several times, boys often win English, and girls maths, so I'd like to think they're being objective.

I'm 'Tyred' of watching people separate boys and girls as if the cis gender roles you're born with have a bearing on academic ability. Testosterone Rex is a great read if you're new to this subject

The research on academic attainment is all based on the sex of subjects, i.e. boys and girls.

Boys and girls are gendered subjects so their upbringing influences attainment.

Still not sure what your point is.

I also think schools should be rewarding those that make the most effort

How do you define effort? How can you tell who has tried the hardest?

I made a list of students to get a prize in an academic subject recently and my shortlist was predominantly girls, mostly because they are more concientious and the prizes are given for hard work rather than attainment.

And newyearnewme it really annoys me when schools don't give a pupil more than one prize. If a single pupil has made most effort, been the best at four + subjects, then that should be recognised, not just give the prize to someone that's second best, surely?

At my sons secondary (and probably lots of others), they have a Head Boy and a Gead Girl. Based on your post, would you suggest they abolish this and simply have a Head Child? FWIW they also have Prefects.

*Head Girl, not Gead Girl!

How do you define effort? How can you tell who has tried the hardest? Very easily, usually, pressuredrop.
Those that are alert, actively participating every lesson, that conscientiously do their homework, that ask for clarification, that are engaged and positive about their learning whatever level they're at. A pupil with a 2 target that has consistently been getting 3s or 4s all year is probably trying harder than a 7 student that gets a 7, for example. Class teachers know their pupils pretty well by this time of year, IME.

wellBeehivedWoman you write:
"It has been shown in many studies that boys tend to perform less well than girls in academic studies. We obviously need to get to the root of that issue and fix the problem, but in the meantime this levels the playing field for boys so that they have a reasonable chance of winning prizes."

What you are saying about boys could also be said about certain minority groups. As has been pointed out several times on this thread already, it would obviously be offensive to give separate prizes based on skin colour or parental income.

I made a list of students to get a prize in an academic subject recently and my shortlist was predominantly girls, mostly because they are more concientious and the prizes are given for hard work rather than attainment

How can you tell they work hard?

Does this mean the idle but brilliant are passed over?

Get rid of head boys and girls, prefects, prizes, and uniforms. The best schools I know have none of these things.

Superficial things like these are false and shallow, in my opinion. They don't solve problems or inspire children.

@AmazinglyGrace - yes. They're called School Captains instead. This is pretty normal.

Those that are alert, actively participating every lesson, that conscientiously do their homework, that ask for clarification, that are engaged and positive about their learning whatever level they're at. A pupil with a 2 target that has consistently been getting 3s or 4s all year is probably trying harder than a 7 student that gets a 7, for example. Class teachers know their pupils pretty well by this time of year, IME

So what happens to the effortlessly brilliant? Or the high achievers who work hard? How do you know the 7 student isn't busting their arse to get that 7?

I can't see an issue with it personally; boys and girls are better at different things. There are huge genetic differences between the sexes, pretending that's not the case just doesn't celebrate us in our own ways. Why is it now seen as bad that we're different?

@tyredmama

I so nearly wrote 'please don't tell me to read anything by Fine' but thought it would be a waste of time.

Testosterone Rex is an insult to academia. The unintellectual suggest that Fine's pop science gives credence to their assertions oh, like you just have but fail to see through her lack of substance and weaselly quantifying.

Fine based her entire assertion on a largely discredited investigation of fruit flies. She picks poor studies and discredits them (an easy job) but ignores mountains of evidence which go against her "possibly" and "maybe" and "might" and "could".

She has released public apologies about misleading footnotes and claims.

Fine can debunk outrageous claims but gives an uninsightful and biased view of science assuming that her readers won't bother to see that, for example, her assertion about gendered toys harming girls is based on a single study of 62 children.

I suggest you read for a better understanding as well as trying still trying to get to grips with the fact that girls outperform boys in your 'patriarchy'.

I agree OP. If there is a good enough argument fir equal gender recognition in the classroom this needs to be replicated in adult life in management structures, boardrooms and equal pay. Until then let girls shine and build their self confidence at school by winning prizes fair and square.
TBH I’m envious of your school giving academic prizes. We’re an academic family (rubbish at sport) and it would be lovely to have academic events, with spectators, for DC to excel at rather than just regular sporting humiliation.

pressuredrop Brilliant but idle should be passed over! Why would we want to reward laziness? What a waste of natural talent; children should be forced encouraged and taught to make the most of their abilities.

All the brilliant but idle children I knew have grown into unhappy, unfulfilled adults, that have floundered around from one thing to the next, never making a success of anything. me included. Mainly because they never learnt to work hard or to make use of the talents they had naturally.

My son is like this, and his school pass him over for prizes almost every year because he only puts effort into Japanese and Pokémon trading cards what he wants to learn, not what is on the curriculum.

@gunnyBear some great googling. But please share your reading list! Specifically something that explains how women out perform boys up to reproduction age and then flail into insignificance. That must be genetic right?