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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

BBC potential appeal re Cliff Richard

177 replies

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 18/07/2018 11:07

Aibu to think that the BBC, having had their arses handed to them this morning, have no business considering appeal against the judgement?
I don't agree with them spending even more of our money justifying their appallong behaviour.

OP posts:
Gottagetmoving · 26/07/2018 18:14

See my thread on Eastenders

Which is....where?

ImAIdoot · 26/07/2018 18:21

To be fair, CR had an iffy reputation well before any of this happened.

You've just made, in very concise terms, the argument for presumption of innocence and anonymity in the press until convicted.

Stinkyswan · 26/07/2018 18:24

I don't think the BBC should appeal. I do think they should do a full investigative documentary into the Elm Guest House and its patron 'Kitty' and see what transpires out of that.

AngelsSins · 26/07/2018 18:38

Jimmy Saville is innocent then?

In criminal law, yes. Hopefully we gave up trying dead people a while ago. (Gets a bit messy, if they're not fully decomposed. Oliver Cromwell springs to mind)

Grin

The issue I have with this, is that surely it means that we have to believe all the survivors are liars? But then they too haven’t been found guilty of lying, so we can’t do that either.

What do we do? Tell them to shut up about it?

DGRossetti · 26/07/2018 18:45

The issue I have with this, is that surely it means that we have to believe all the survivors are liars?

Criminal law has nothing to do with reality.

prh47bridge · 26/07/2018 18:46

The issue I have with this, is that surely it means that we have to believe all the survivors are liars

No it doesn't. Jimmy Saville is dead so cannot be libelled, nor will he ever be convicted of anything. If he was still alive he would be entitled to the presumption of innocence. As he is dead he is innocent in law but we can ignore that for all practical purposes.

Bombardier25966 · 26/07/2018 18:52

I do think they should do a full investigative documentary into the Elm Guest House and its patron 'Kitty' and see what transpires out of that.

I would strongly object to TV Licence funds being spent on internet mythology.

GnotherGnu · 26/07/2018 18:54

No, Jimmy Savile isn't innocent. He is simply presumed innocent. There is a significant difference.

derxa · 26/07/2018 18:57

I barely watch the BBC now. I'm not a fan of CR but what he suffered was disgusting. Sensationalist reporting which no one will forget.

longwayoff · 26/07/2018 18:58

Stinky you know that's not going to happen.

AngelsSins · 26/07/2018 18:58

I don’t think I made my point very well! My point is that victims should have a voice, they need to be listened to. My dad abused me as a kid, I never told anyone in my family. If I went to the police now, there would be no proof, and if it ever got to court, he would be found not guilty. But he did it.

So those saying CF is innocent because he hasn’t been found guilty, and poor him because mud sticks etc are basically dismissing the voices of those victims. You don’t know if he’s innocent or not.

I think the biggest issue is the police. We can’t trust them to uncover these men. Look at JS, how the police covered for him until he was dead. Look at Aston Hill, look at Rotherham. If we could trust the police, we wouldn’t need to worry about “mud sticking”.

user1457017537 · 26/07/2018 19:00

I agree re an investigative documentary re Elm Guest House by the BBC. Come to think of it what is happening re that big inquiry, the one where everyone kept resigning. That’s all gone quiet as well.

user1457017537 · 26/07/2018 19:05

To be fair to the victims there has only been about 3 prosecutions. Rolf Harris, Max Clifford and Stuart Hall. Gary Glitter and Jonathan King were ages ago. If you really read and research the depth of this child abuse, you can only come to the conclusion that the great and the good are being protected. Haut le Gaurrene in Jersey for example.

AngelsSins · 26/07/2018 19:09

user1457017537 absolutely agree.

user1457017537 · 26/07/2018 19:17

Everyone knew about Jimmy Saville it was an open secret! Maybe not about the depths of his depravity but to think he had access to Broadmoor, Stoke Mandeville, morgues and Girls Schools where he used to take advantage of vulnerable pupils. He was one sick fuck and anyone with half a brain could see it.

Original poster
IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 26/07/2018 19:32

Angels I think you are conflating two separate things - it is entirely possible that victims in other cases are not lying and that CR is innocent of any wrongdoing. The two are not connected.

The police will have gone through his life with a fine toothed comb - if there was anything to find I think they would have found it. They certainly had a vested interest, in order to vindicate their behaviour. They found nothing.

The police and BBC have publicly ripped this man's life apart seemingly on the say so of one person, who remains anonymous. We cannot have the police and the BBC behaving like this at will, with no actual evidence to support wrongdoing and then say that any accusation is bound to be truthful - it isn't. People do sometomes lie. I think of the Hamiltons who were falsely accused of rape. There are some horrid, malicious people out there.

OP posts:
AngelsSins · 26/07/2018 19:40

Angels I think you are conflating two separate things - it is entirely possible that victims in other cases are not lying and that CR is innocent of any wrongdoing. The two are not connected

Of course, I’m trying to imply otherwise, but I am saying that we shouldn’t dismiss these claims out of hand, especially when statistically, people are far more likely to be telling the truth than lying when they claim to be victims of a crime. The BBC were wrong to do what they did, but can you really say the police were?

AngelsSins · 26/07/2018 19:41

*im not trying to implying otherwise!

Original poster
IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 26/07/2018 19:49

The police were not wrong to investigate. They were wrong to tip off the BBC that they were raiding CR's house.
The police also didn't dismiss allegations out of hand - they did a thorough investigation and found nothing untoward.

OP posts:
AngelsSins · 26/07/2018 20:10

The police also didn't dismiss allegations out of hand - they did a thorough investigation and found nothing untoward

I didn’t say the police did! I was referring to the general public. As I said, they’d find nothing on my dad either, but he still did it.

Maybe I’m not being very clear because it’s a subject I’m a little “triggered” by, and I will always believe victims unless it’s proven otherwise. I guess it saddens me that a lot of people don’t.

I’ll leave the thread, sorry if I’ve not been clear or derailed at all Flowers

lola212121 · 26/07/2018 20:10

@IWannaSeeHowItEnds I used to think that being proven innocent meant just that until Twice two guilty people who committed horrendous crimes against me were found innocent, alternatively there are many people who have been charged with something they didn't do . Only cliff and the people who accused know the truth .

Stinkyswan · 26/07/2018 20:13

@Bombardier25966 I'm pretty sure the existence on The Elm Guest House and it's purpose are based in fact. Don't you think it's time the wrong doings of the past were exposed? I remember similar attitudes when the original Jimmy Saville documentary was aired. An investigation can be balanced and if there's nothing to report, there's nothing to report... on the other hand 🤔 why is this matter continuously hushed up? Sometimes the internet is the only place left for the truth to out when it's in the interest of the upper echelons of society to keep those stories hidden.

Original poster
IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 26/07/2018 20:26

Angel, I am really sorry about what happened to you.

I do think wrt CR there is no more reason to think badly of him than there is to think badly of any person you walk past in thr street, yet he will always be viewed in a negative light by some, due to how this investigstion was handled.

Please don't leave the thread unless it is causing you distress Flowers

OP posts:
Bookridden · 26/07/2018 20:27

The Daily Mail and the Tories will be loving this thread with all these calls for the BBC to lose its public funding. I expect this thread to be picked up by the Mail shortly.

worridmum · 26/07/2018 20:52

Well if Cliff Richard is not able to clear his name and the people basically saying no smoke without fire are all playing into the argument that the accused do need animotiy until conviction.

Because seriously what more can Cliff Richard do to actually prove he is innocent. He has had his entire life combed over with a fine tooth comb he has been to court, the police and the BBC have been found in the wrong. He not been charged or convicted of anything so far there is not even enough shred of evidence to actually warrant a charge (this bar is not very high so its ethier he is in fact innocent or hes the worlds best criminal or the police were completely incompetent to not being able to find any evidence).

What else physically can he do to prove he is innocent? (by the sound of it from some posters here nothing).

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