To think that social housing is a step up, not a step down.

[JarlBalgruuf]

I always see stuff implying that people who have a council or housing association house are in the lowest form of housing.

I think it is bollocks. Having rented privately for about 4 years I think that assumption is bollocks. I have seen it all with private lets in that short time.

From my first flat when weeks after the checkout inspection, the (unregistered!) landlady text saying her plumber had found a hole in the bath and wanted us to pay for it, to a flat with cracks in the walls from subsidence that caused the windows not to shut properly, to a flat where I got a notice to quit while pregnant because I said I wasn't paying rent until they fixed the stuff they had been promising to fix since before I moved in over a year ago.

That plus extortionate rent , deposits, agent fees, late rent fees, having to hassle and hassle to get anything fixed, inspections, and getting billed when you moved out for stuff that was broken when you moved in.

Since renting from a housing association, none of the stuff in the flat has broken yet, I have been consulted on changes they want to make to communal areas, and if I haven't been able to pay rent on time it's been totally fine, no late fees.

Why the fuck is being treated like an actual human being supposedly worse that basically being shat on and not being able to do anything about it? although I did consider hiding fish under the floorboards of my last flat they treated me that badly.

Interesting post OP, and great thread. Chiming in with my experience ........

I've only had one experience of private renting in the last 10 years - absolute scum letting agents it must be said. The flat was in a poor state of repair and I basically spent six months fixing things up, and then things got worse. As far as the extra charges were concerned the agents tenant fees were the worst. (Meant to being made illegal in England - as they are already in Scotland - but not happened yet!!!!!!!). It put me off private renting for life - the underhand tactics they used - didn't know respectable-looking people could go that low!

Then I got some social housing. Hmm... The security is/was nice I admit, and rent a bit lower. But as another poster said further up - new tenancies in the UK are for 5 years only!! No-one gets a lifetime tenancy any more. Its also a bit of a cheap "thrown up" flat from the 1980s, rather than my private rented flat which overlooked a pleasant residential street and trees!

However, I also spent a long time getting my social housing place fixed up, mould sorted, adding flooring (just bare dusty concrete provided by Housing Association) etc etc. We have drug dealers, noise and aggressive dogs, all in a small space, so I wouldn't recommend it really. As poster last night said above:

Sadly in some area social housing is in so high demand that it is a race to the bottom and the people at the top of the list are low life's who know how to work the system. SH estates here are notorious for drugs, anti social behaviour and crime

THANK GOD I have a few nice neighbours, even if only a few. But there seems to be constant difficulties with various small (and bigger) issues. I wish I lived miles from anyone tbh.

being pregnant is never relevant to anything housing-related.

What a daft comment

Very relevant.

My HA property was definetly a step up. And I had a reasonable private landlord that had no intentions of selling or evicting me and was only a few years older than me and unlikely to die. And his estate would have passed to his son who had already started building his portfolio of property.

I went from a 120 year old mid terrace with no cavity wall to insulate in a pretty run down area to a 3 bed semi detached new build with an energy rating in the high Bs on a permanent tenancy. Area is 10 times better than previous area. Schools better, everything better.

HA is bang on. Repairs done immediately, no major issues so far. Missed 2 rent payments due to a banking error and had a gentle phone call pointing it out and asking if there was a problem. Can't fault them really.

I agree
We've Been in private rent 10 yrs. No hot water for years no upstairs heating last year he got us a plug in oil radiator for one of the kids room.
My friends pay half the amount rent I do get all upkeep & maintenance sorted, even had brand new kitchens put in last year.
Lots of them got their houses though after living in overcrowded conditions or in bedsits for long periods of time.
I wasnt prepared to do that then seriously regret that when after paying rent there's nothing left each month

I think you were lucky Frouby. There are few SH houses - semi-detached in the South. I do think it is down to luck as well - there are of course some great SH places - I see them on Homeswapper! But lots of tiny, cheap flats built on traffic junctions and other undesirable locations.

Interestingly, historically, originally council housing (as it was called then) was a step up! You had to go on a waiting list, you usually had to be employed and a respectable paid up member of the working class! The rest of the (relative) poor were left to survive with private renting as best they could - in slum tenements etc, even Notting Hill in the 40s and 50s was full of slum housing.

No, I did not suggest that tenants try to wriggle out of paying their rent. My comment was in response to the Op who said she had been late paying rent.

Being late paying rent might be due to all kinds of reasons - however, landlords have to pay their mortgages or pay their HA staff or whatever. Tenants need to expect to pay their rent on time and landlords are not there to turn a blind eye and accept late payment. Here on this thread we hear about dreadful landlords and agencies - and I know lots exist and more needs to be done to stop it - but also landlords get stung by bad tenants who don't pay rent or trash places too. EVERYONE needs to meet their side of the bargain - landlords to provide the service they are paid to provide and tenants to pay on time for the service. This lack of trust on both sides arises from people on both sides not meeting their side of the bargain. Everyone needs to make sure they meet their side and in the end, we can only be responsible for our own behaviour. So as a tenant, you need to expect to maintain a property reasonably, report any problems in good time, pay rent on time and when you move out, leave the place in a decent state. It's not acceptable to default on any of this - and saying it's beyond your control and you didn't mean to isn't good enough - grown ups need to take responsibility for properties they rent, including paying the rent. and landlords need to offer properties in a decent state of repair, respond to problems and sort them, give privacy and due notice of the end of a tenancy. Neither tenants nor landlords should expect to get away without meeting their side of the bargain.

Having been on a mixed estate, it is our bitter experience that the social housing tenants lived up to their ( appalling ) stereotypes.

A total and demoralising mystery ; brand new, well made housing, yet virtually every HA tenant behaved anti socially eg Drug dealing, theft, damage to other properties by feral children, dangerous dog keeping, noise, litter - including dog shit, chewing gum, broken furniture etc - and to top it all... chicken keeping, by the tenant with no garden. You couldn’t make it up. Every type of anti social behaviour possible.

No doubt I’ll be utterly savaged verbally by posting this piece of empiricism, but post it I will, because I’m sick to the back teeth of people wailing about the rights of those with no recourse but social housing, when so many who are are frankly scum with the social responsibility of a flea. And I speak as someone who has had no recourse but to live through it and have sales fall through as others withdrew having realised that a perfectly decent estate was well on the way to becoming a sink estate due to the behaviour of a minority.

We are gone now , thank Christ, and my tolerance and opinions changed forever.
And I do not believe our experience was unique but I do believe few people will dare voice their opinions on a forum dominated by the demographics popular with mumsnet.

"No rent statements have been issued since it was implemented in August 2016, and if a resident insists on a rent statement it has to be prepared manually in a spreadsheet.
The rent and calculations for accounts are hard to use, and often completely wrong. Mostly because the system was never designed to understand housing benefit payments, and this has a very convoluted workaround which a computer cannot make sense of.
SAP cannot interface with Local Authorities Housing benefit systems so payments are missed, lost or misattributed."

Inch if that is your experience then that is your experience

We dont seem to have those problems here..............not on this part of our estate anyway.

www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/news/council-considering-handing-back-homes-leased-from-private-landlords-57217

Helena Dove -

Thanks, I appreciate your comment. It was our experience and it saddened as well as depressed me. I should add that I grew up in social housing so our experience was especially shocking.
I do realise that there are many very decent tenants out there. But what we faced was very upsetting and at times traumatic, especially having worked hard to get to buy a house.

It seems to me Housing Associations won't or can't use their powers Inch, except in the most extreme circumstances. We had a tenant who repeatedly broke their tenancy agreement, even stealing electricity and gas from the mains supplied by the HA for corridors - yet was rehoused in a fabulous detached house for his trouble! I just think they ought to get a bit more feisty with their powers, instead of sitting back on their laurels, and unfortunately often letting the most irresponsible ruin it for others.

YANBU of course. I think it's only the ancient, just-about-lower-middle-class people who bought houses for tuppence ha'penny back in the day, who feel the need to underline ther superiority over social tenants. Everybody else is jealous!

I don't know how long what's left of our social housing will last though.

I think its on the way out ...

I have had a similar experience to you @Inch.

Bought a house on a new build cul-de-sac, mostly private properties but 3 HA at the end of the street. It’s been built 3 years and there’s been continual issues with the HA houses.

House 1 was a single occupant who then decided to party each night, get off her face and lock herself out of her house then try to kick her own door down at 3am. One particularly memorable night we had to call the police as she and her brother were both under the influence of something and had a street fight which ended in her trying to stab him with a kitchen knife.

House 2 are parents with 1 child. They openly deal drugs in broad daylight, the stench of pot that comes up the street is disgusting. I went to the door once as I took a parcel in from them and the smoke hits you as soon as the door opens. That poor child growing up in that situation. They regularly have people battering on the door.

House 3 is a woman with 2 kids and god knows how many boyfriends. She likes to shout at her kids, tell them to F off and call them names. Even at 7am. I hear her when I’m hanging out the washing (and I live 2 doors up!). Her kids get chucked out of the house at every opportunity to “play” outside which means vandalising things, kicking balls off cars, swearing and bullying other kids.

Its really demoralising knowing that you’ve worked your ass off to buy a house and ended up living in an antisocial nightmare. Several people have already moved because of the problems. We’re saving up as much as we can to escape as we can imagine how bad it will get when said kids grow into teens.

I say this as someone who was raised in a “Council house”.

But as another poster said further up - new tenancies in the UK are for 5 years only!! No-one gets a lifetime tenancy any more
That’s not true, it’s area dependant. Many HA’s still offer lifetime tenancies.

There's a small housing association Estate being built in our village, just over the road from a nearly finished private estate. I drove past on Friday, thinking that the HA homes look much nicer and more varied, and they will all have the same facilities in the village.

When I owned my own flat, I was made homeless by the actions of a neighbour and the subsequent argument between insurance companies. I was given a council flat two streets up as I was homeless, the flat being unfit for habitation according to Env Health. In the couple of years I was there, the 1930s solid two-bed flat got new heating, new kitchen, external and loft insulation.

I later worked for Housing in the council. While they are building new homes themselves, new developments often have to turn over a couple of streets to the council as social housing. Mind you they are tough on behaviour; this is a Council which won an ASBO against a homeowner barring them from their house for six months for constant antisocial behaviour to the neighbours. Here, your neighbour in the exact same house may be a council tenant.

I was lucky to get a nice HA property on a naice estate where homes-reach the 1 million mark- it’s beautiful here- lovely grounds; great atmosphere; no crime or graffiti or litter.
I pay £400 a month; on same estate in private rental I was paying £850 per month. The area seems to attract residents that care for their properties- private rental, HA and owned.
Security of tenancy- no moving every 6 months and trying to find deposits
I have now been given the option to buy as my area is in a pilot area, I will get £81000 discount which acts as a deposit so I’m going for it. This gives me the option of buying when life has not been kind to me through I’ll health- I trained as a Dr but was too ill to work. I know plenty disagree with the scheme- there’s a reason the HA call it the golden ticket. However I’ve made my choice and there are not many that would walk away from an offer like this. I hope there is investment in social housing- it’s a more humane way of living.... well apart from when you meet the judgey people who think it’s a race to the bottom. I ask them to consider though spending a day in someone else’s life before they judge

Channel 4 Dispatches
‏Verified account @C4Dispatches
5m5 minutes ago

This pensioner has been threatened with eviction by her housing association for not paying service charges - the fees have more than doubled in five years.
#Dispatches has uncovered the six figure salaries some housing association execs are receiving. Tonight 8pm @Channel4

*First of all you say:
the people at the top of the list are low life's who know how to work the system

Then go on to say:
This gives people the impression that social housing=scum bags, which is really sad

Make your mind up 🤔*

@PositiveVibez I don't need to make my mind up about anything; the minority of low lifes that make the most noise in SH often tar everyone with the same brush. That is sad.

I agree many people are a product of their own upbringing. Where I am there is a contract to adhere to regarding refraining some certain behaviours when living in a house provided by SH. I don't think coming come a deprived background excuses making your neighbours life hell. Coming from a deprived background does not mean that you need to keep dangerous dogs and allow them to roam freely around the estate, or letting your dc rip around on mini motos until past midnight. That is selfish, entitled behaviour, not lack of awareness or ignorance.

There is another thread here about vile neighbours - people who own their own properties. So, on one level, it can happen to anyone, not just in social housing. But the social housing "estates" can make the problem worse, as all the problems are concentrated in one area, and often on top of each other (flats).

However, if I owned my own home (or even rented) and had problem neighbours I could - and would - move. Even with the added expense. On a Council Estate much more difficult to get away, via a swap etc. At least, in my experience.

.

@ everstrong

I’m really sorry that you too have been - are, indeed - subject to this and hope you find a way to more peaceful living.

My feeling is that mixed estates do not work; nor should people be subject to social experimentation. The ‘ broken window ‘ theory should prevail . That is, things go down rather than up once agreed norms are transgressed.
I know for fact that on our estate the developer was made to rebuy properties from private buyers due to the levels of unanticipated antisocial behaviour from social housing tenants.

I’m sticking my neck out here simply because I feel very strongly that social injustice cuts both ways, and too much flabby liberalism is accorded to those perceived as more disadvantaged on an economic taxonomy of need.

Frankly I don’t care if you are in social housing or not but I care very much how you behave to others around you.

My HA has generally been great (been here 5 years). Generally things have been fixed whenever I’ve needed them to be, and the workmen are always lovely and helpful. Also very lucky to live in a very sought after town with great schools, and only a few HA houses.

I think a lot of it depends on how well the house has been looked after though. My kitchen and bathroom are ok, but went to my NDN’s house for the first time the other day and I was shocked! Their bathroom is awful and there’s plaster coming off the walls all over the house. Apparently our street is not due an upgrade for kitchens and bathrooms until 2030 so they have to either suck it up until then or replace it themselves.

Interesting to read all your replies.

RE the neighbours, this is by far the worst street I have ever lived on. There is police almost every day somewhere.
There was a fire across the road from our flat the other week because the people had got fucked, left a pot on the stove and gone out. Turned out they had fixed the electric meter as well.
There is this wanker of a woman upstairs who doesn't pick up her dog's shit from the garden and seemed offended when I suggested it (have reported her and will do happily again if need be)
A guy got arrested against our living room window a few weeks after we moved in.
Just before we moved in there was apparently a murder on the street too.

That being said, the flat is nice and it's close to the centre of town. We are looking to swap somewhere so we don't have to raise our son here, but the main problem we have is just being on the ground floor. You can't ignore the shit that happens.

WombatChocolate The late rent a couple of times was only when I was switching from being paid weekly from my work to my mat allowance every two weeks. But we just changed to paying two weekly instead of weekly. Job done, no fuss. In previous private lets I wasn't even allowed to change the day I paid on to when I got my UC so I had to keep the months rent for about three weeks before I was allowed to pay it. Usually had to spend some on frivolities like food.

Inch
The problem with not having mixed estates is then it's kind of like class segregation. The only solution I see is for the people doing illegal stuff or acting like fannies to actually be stopped. If there were actually consequences then people wouldn't do it, or would at least be more discreet.
And since it isn't just the poor social housing people who sell drugs and have little shit kids re-segregating housing wouldn't really work in regards to actually stopping anti social behaviour. The guy with two BMWs on the driveway who sells £100/g cocaine to rich businessmen will still be able to as all the attention would be (and is) on the poor estates.
I totally see your point, that just as working class people shouldn't be confined to shit places, better off people shouldn't have to put up with bad neighbours.
I guess, as with most social issues, there isn't really an easy answer.