To think some posters live in a weird bubble if they think parents have free choice of schools?

[Treesybreezy]

Whenever there is a poster with a problem with a school, primary or secondary, a rash of people appear declaring 'you knew this when you chose the school you have to abide by it now's

You'd think the mad panic over what schools children are allocated every year, with stories about children not placed every year, would penetrate a bit? We don't have free choice of schools (ignoring fee paying schools - what percentage of the population is that anyway?). We have to apply to schools that are in catchment for our address and then hope that they get a place in what can be the least worst option. And given that not everyone is in a position to be able to effectively homeschool (especially for secondary school) this will regularly mean children attending schools that parents dislike parts of, in order for the children to at least get an education.

I think it's easier here in Scotland. You don't have to apply generally. It's accepted that all children go to their nearest school so there is none of the angst of waiting to be allocated a school. If you want your dcs to attend a school out of the catchment, as we did with ours at secondary level, then you need to apply for a place in that school but it rarely seems to be an issue in my experience

Some parents have more choice than others. Some home educate. Some like I do pay/paid school fees/ Some choose state boarding or private boarding schools. Some areas of the country like I am in have very very many different schools from hindu to jewish state ones to state grammars if you travel and even London specialist maths sixth form - state sector.

However if you back to where I am from in the NE for someone unable to pay school fees in many areas there is just one or two secondary schools in your particular area.

I agree. Most of us don’t have a choice really. My local school has a catchment of just 0.3 Miles.

We’re ok as we’re 0.2 and it’s a outstanding school. But the next nearest school is in special measures. People who live at the end of my road didn’t get in as they live 0.35 miles away. Hardly a choice.

Back in the 90s I worked in local government. Part of my job was the legal side of admission appeals.

I got so sick of parents who'd been unsuccessful telling me (often in a very abusive and threatening way) that they had the right to choose the school their child went to that I just used to quote the phrase that was in the legal guidance "... the right to express a preference" and point out that that didn't mean "choose".

And it was always people who lived in the big towns who kicked off, parents in the areas where there really wasn't a choice just accepted it.

There is a choice though, when I was younger our local secondary school was awful. It was also the only one we were in catchment for, local primaries were great. We went out of area to school, got the bus, which only ran twice a day and if we had extra curricular activities which we did a lot my parents would arrange to collect us later, they would have lift sharing with other parents in the same area eg I'll pick Fash and Bob up from netball Tuesday, could you do the pick up from choir rehearsal on Thursday as I'm working a bit later. Was it an inconvenience to them? Absolutely, but they did have a choice.

And yes, education is the sum of its parts and that includes everyone involved in the process, so parent and child as well as whoever is teaching.

What has happened that has suggested anyone sees it differently to this?

YANBU we were quite happy with the catchment area school (0.5 miles away) and put it as our first choice and didn't get a place. We have no choice but to accept a school, not as good, on the other side of town. It's ridiculous! 3/5 school in my town are oversubscribed and the remain 2 are crap. I've email my MP about it because more houses are being built but no new school in my area.

If this is a TaT then the school the op has chosen is in the middle of a densely populated inner London area where there is a choice.

I don't know what thread you're referring to, but living in a densely populated area really doesn't mean you have a choice. Often the reality in such areas is that only siblings and those living within a street or two of a particular school have a chance to get in.

Most people surely don't have massive choice over where they live or whether they work or not so talking about moving or homeschooling isn't particularly helpful.

Well, I’m not necessarily trying to help the op, by suggesting she does either of these things^^, but I read the op and just thought, “well there is some choice”, as peng said. Not good choices; like quitting your job, applying for benefits so you can home school. Or massively downsizing so you can live in a teeny flat near the school of your choice. Horrible choices, but choices nonetheless.

What made me a bit by this op was, why has it come as a surprise? There is no entitlement for parents to choose the school they like best. I mean, am I missing something? Do people really not realise before their children start school what a lottery the education system is? I was aware of this long before I was even married, let alone having dcs. Yes, we now live near a secondary school we wouldn’t choose, but something has to give. This is all that we could afford near dh’s work. Rather a less than ideal local school than being homeless.

I completely agree with the op that, in an ideal world, all schools would be of equal high quality, so we wouldn’t have to have this angst every year. But as it is, that isn’t the case.

Effort needs to be put into improving the shit schools instead of having parents battling to avoid them. But this country is in bits. I have close acquaintances who work in parliament and also very senior in nhs. They see, close up, what’s happening and they are very anxious. It’s a matter of doing the best you can with the crap we’ve got just now afaic. And I can’t see it getting much better .

There is choice for those that seek it but some don't.

Our area was lovely but the schools not so due to neighbouring towns so we moved prior to having the DC. As well as looking at the areas, we looked at schools, their ofsted etc and moved to a new place that suited both. Yes it was a period of upheaval but worth it.

In an ideal world all schools would be equal but they are not. Parents can stay where they are and moan or they can do something about it.

My choice = 1 primary school, 1 secondary school or move house! Yup, loads of choice.

Lakielady is right though. You don't get a "choice", choice is the wrong word. You can express your preferences, which is not the same! When you put down School A first on the form, you are only saying "I would prefer my dc to go to this school", not "I choose A". It doesn't work like that! It's even harder if your child has SEND issues, as you would also have to state why School A is the best (and actually the ONLY) fit for your child. Without an EHCP - and even with one - your chances of getting the best school that suits your child are not great.

We are in a grammar area, which means the rest of the schools are somewhat less ideal in terms of more disruptive, disengaged pupils who don't care about their education or anyone else's. Yes, we do have the choice to move to a different area - but that's a massive and expensive decision to make.

What made me a bit by this op was, why has it come as a surprise?

You've misunderstood the OP. She never said it was a surprise, what she did say was why do people insist that everyone has a choice in what schools their children go to, when for many, it is not a choice. And as LakieLady pointed out, even the "choice" is actually only a "preference".

When we moved to this area 13 years ago, the local secondary was the school parents avoided, appealed to get into others etc and was the case even 4 years ago. It's now one parents fight to get their child into. The change bizarrely meant it wasn't suitable for DS1 (ASD with an EHCP) and we were able to get a place for him in a specialist ASD base some 20 miles away. We were very lucky to get that place as there was a huge demand.

The local primary has struggled for many years and has recently plummeted to an all time low. Logistics are such that my primary age child either goes there or I home ed. So I still have a choice, but really should a school be so awful?

True^^, she didn’t say it was a surprise. I think I misspoke / mistyped there.

I suppose I mean, well yeah, there isn’t a choice of state secondary school for most people. There are things you can do and choices you can make to effect which school you’re likely to be allocated or you can make certain choices while would allow you to homeschool if that’s what you wanted. But if you mean having the pick of several state secondary schools in the same area, then clearly not. Does anyone think that’s normal?

Re the op complaining about posters saying “you knew that when you chose to send your dc there” to other parents on here; for me it totally depends on what the parent is kicking off about at the school.

For example, I see it a lot on here re faith schools, where the op says they object to the Christian ethos. I think it’s natural to think “you don’t have to send them there you know”? And that is true. You don’t have to. It’s an offer of a place. Just because you haven’t got a more palatable offer, it doesn’t mean you should just accept the place you don’t really want and then immediately start throwing your weight around, expecting the school to change something which is central to its ethos, based on the preference of one parent.

It’s fine to want improvements at your dc’s school, so if that’s the sort of thing the op means, then that’s different.

It’s hard to understand the op as I think she might be referencing another thread in particular? Don’t know, but if so, it’s hard to understand what you mean without reading the thread you’re referring to.

Can you clarify?

Was also going to say that generally when people say "you knew this when you chose the school ..." it's because generally that's relevant to their situation.

The primary education boards are filled with posters complaining that their DC's school turns into a SATS factory in Y6, but yet they picked the school due to its great SATS results. Other posters pick a school because it is "strict" and then complain about the level of sanctions in school.

@Bibesia
In the case of this area, there are several schools within spitting distance.

frayedhem would it not make more sense to move closer to DS's provision, into the area for a good primary for DD?
Less travelling for him, better school for her.

I got in the school I chose for Ds however until September no idea if it will work. He has Sen needs .

Regardless as a Lp , housing association home no option to home school, lose any security if I move.

So if I have issues with my Ds with Sen’s I will be talking to the school

We can't afford the housing nearer KingsHeathen. I have 4 DC, 2 with ASD so cramming into a 2 bed just won't work for us. Besides, DS2 is about to start in the good local secondary which will suit him perfectly. DS1's mainstream wouldn't be such a great match for DS2.

I live in London, in my borough I have 74 primary schools to choose from. And 16 secondary. That doesn't take into account I'm on the edge of my borough and over lap into the next and can effectively double my choice.

Schools also change. It’s quite possible that the school you chose in the year before your eldest child started reception isn’t really the same school when your youngest is in year 6.

Religious character is an example of this. The extent to which a school, even a community school, has religious worship depends very much on the head teacher. Head teachers move, religious character changes as a result.

On the point of choosing to send a child to a church school, there are areas of the country where pretty much all schools are CofE. That isn’t really choice.

Where we live is about 50% CofE primary schools. We decided not to live in the catchment of one as we don’t want a religious school for our DC. But there will be people who don’t have that choice - for example being housed by the LA, so going where suitable housing is offered. Their choices are massively restricted.

I'm in London. The good schools were a factor in where we moved to. Problem was so many other people did the same that we didn't get into any of them.
Luckily the school we got assigned used to be terrible but was on the up, and is now the stupidly-oversubscribed one...

Secondary is going to be similar - there's about 100 schools to choose from that are in sensible travel distance etc, but about ten we have any chance at all of getting into, and no idea which we might get a place in practice.
Sadly turning down schools which look like being terrible for an anxious kid with ASD isn't going to be easy...