is this disability discrimination or okay to ask?

[ATempUserName]

Not sure if I am being oversensitive and not sure what to do.

I had an interview for a sideways / higher level position in my current public sector organisation. Different department.

I have an assistance dog. Nearly everyone in the company knows I have an assistance dog. No problem taking her to work etc but having one does seem to be preventing me from moving up the ladder, into jobs that will be more client engagement.

Prior to the interview, my current line manager told me to 'leave the dog at home so it doesn't distract the interviewers'. (my dog was unsettled in a previous unsuccessful internal interview, but it was a very small room with a lot of passing 'traffic' and 'noise' outside. I wasn't comfortable in that room either!)

And in this week's unsuccessful interview, I was asked by the interviewers (who both see me every day as we're in the same building albeit different floors) if my dog "goes everywhere with you" I answered yes, and they said "Okay just wondering" but it made me uncomfortable and I wonder if it played a part in their decision.

I think I gave a really good interview, I felt confident, so I'm not sure what reason they will give for my lack of success. I have a feedback interview in 2 weeks (interviewer on leave). Should I say something?

Any advice appreciated. I've been there 14 years (not always with an assistance dog) and I've had lots of problems re: my disabilities and do seem to have developed a reputation as a complainer as a result.

I've only ever raised one grievance before, several years ago, I always try to deal with things informally but then something else happens. I'm getting close to my last straw.

Heading to bed now, will look at other replies tomorrow. thanks to those who have replied so far

I don't really know if you have grounds for a complaint or not, it's not my area of expertise. It's hard to tell- they probably shouldn't have asked, but maybe they really were just not sure if you always had the dog with (without it mattering either way)? It's also possible that they have discriminated against you. I think you have to get the feedback and see what that shows- and then get advice from your union if you aren't satisfied.

As I said, I would be tread somewhat carefully re being given the answers. You are on a fine line there- if it cam out it could be said you colluded in being given an unfair advantage rather than being discriminated against. Not sure you covered yourself with glory there.

I wont be saying to my line manager "maybe I should have taken your advice..." shocked an HR person would advise that tbh

I think the HR Mumsnetter was showing you a sneaky way of 'innocently' getting it recorded in writing, that this comment was made to you by your HR manager. If they dispute it, I'm not sure of the next step, but if they don't dispute it, or reply 'yeah, probably wasn't a good idea to take the dog' then you have just got discrimination against you IN WRITING. Therefore useful for a legal case. [big grin]

Is it public sector or a company you work for OP?

public sector

And thanks, I now see what the HR bod was saying, although I already have an email saying "leave the dog at home" (it wasn't said verbally)

Okay off to bed. thanks

Unless you were the only candidate for the job it won’t be a case of hit this minimum bar and the job is yours. You may have given a good interview, great even. And they may have been willing to hire you based off it. But someone else may have given an outstanding interview trumping you. That is really common in my experience.

OP you may have grounds regarding her comment about leaving the dog out of the interview, but you're not going to have a leg to stand on regarding the interview given you cheated. I work in the public sector and knowing the questions in advance is a very serious issues as they are competency based and not generic interview questions.

It sounds like your work don't feel that it's necessary for you to have your assistance dog at work.

What assistance does the dog provide?

I remember the last thread, and I very much doubt it was the assistance dog that meant the OP didn't get the job.

Jasmine Loggerenberg, equality solicitor.

They probably don't understand why you need a dog if you're not blind. What assistance does the dog provide? Is it likely they see your dog as non essential?

Definitely don’t complain about your manager giving you the questions- that has given you an advantage.
I don't think the OP was planning to complain about that, but it's really difficult that this happened, as others have said, it could well be seen as a serious disciplinary offence for her to have given them to you, and should bar you from the process too, as it was effectively cheating.
I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I got a job on that basis, and I don't think I'd have done the interview

I understand you don’t want to give details. And you don’t have to regarding the purpose of the dog, but there is suck a difference in assistance dogs and he reasons for them. I have seen a cavalier spaniel required for anxiety. A sausage dog for depression, up to an officially trained lab for seizures. If your dog is one of the former as opposed to the latter. They may not feel you and your condition is suited to a more face to face customer driven role, but better in a controlled office environment. You didn’t do well and neither did the dog in a smaller interview room. So may not if you had to deal with a client in the same type of set up. I don’t believe it’s discrimination action if your disability actually precludes you from doing a role. If you are capable of the role, that’s different, but without more info it’s hard to make that determination. And others seem to think they are aware of a backstory with a bit more detail.

Is it possible that there is a less sinister reason for asking those questions? If the role is customer facing as you say then what about if you need to deal regularly with people who are scared of dogs or allergic to them? Or who have to bring small children with them if it is one of those type of roles? It is something that needs to be considered although of course you shouldn't be discriminated against.

The interviewers may have been wondering why you answered "yes, dog goes everywhere with me" when dog hadn't come with you to interview.

Not talking specifically about the OP but the idea that interviewers dont discriminate is just BS. Of course they do. Its an inherent human trait and no amount of legislation will obliterate it.

Where i used to work, interviews were often just a side show as the job had already been nailed on for someone else.

Nepotism was rife. Mummies and daddies would somehow arrange to shoehorn their little darling into a nice job.
This is a FTSE 100 company by the way.

I actually don't see an issue here at all.

If in a previous interview you have told your manager that the dog was playing up and unsettled then she probably thought this caused you unnecessary stress during the interview and something you wanted to avoid.

How exactly was the dog unsettled? Was it barking and trying to get out of the room? Why isn't is better trained if it is a proper assistance dog?

And the interviewers only asked one question- they might have been wondering about how to adapt the office to suit the need for a dog. They didn't interrogate you over the dog or ask why you have it, simply if it was a constant need.

There are two separate issues here, and I speak as a guide dog owner who has had a manager ask me to leave my dog at home for team events, lunches etc (I refused).

Firstly, asking whether you always take your dog everywhere is not a question which an interviewer should be permitted to ask. Bearing in mind they will be interviewing several candidates they presumably have a generic list of questions which they will be asking all the candidates. Their decision should be made on those answers alone (we all know that doesn’t quite happen that way but that’s how it should happen.). To deviate from those questions and to ask personal questions about a candidate based on e.g. their disability, race, sex or e.g. childcare situation could definitely be seen as discriminatory since they’re not in a position to ask the same questions of the other candidates. The equality act is very clear on this. Interviewers are not permitted in fact to ask candidates about their disabilities. So on that score the interviewer was in the wrong, but you will find it difficult to prove discrimination as they’re unlikely to make it public. Unfortunately though I have heard of multiple instances of public sector organisations asking guide and other assistance dog owners to leave the dogs at home for interviews, and these have been external candidates who have declared their disability up front.

Secondly, and directed more towards the OP, if an assistance dog is disruptive in any kind of environment that is not acceptable. Assistance dogs are meant to be well trained, and if it becomes agitated in certain environments such as small spaces etc then that is something which an employer should rightly be able to complain about. I have always expected impeccable behaviour from my dogs when they’re working or in another environment other than at home. If it was known that my dog became agitated in certain areas to the point that my line manager was advising not taking the dog into that environment I would be seeking advice from guide dogs.

People are saying that the OP’s manager was out of order for advising the OP to leave the dog at home, but tbh if the dog is known for being badly behaved it’s understandable that the manager might think it a good idea so that the interviewers could concentrate on the candidate rather than be distracted by a badly behaved dog.

PS: in my situation my line manager was a discriminatory bitch who discriminated against me on many levels but also against anyone else who was in any way weaker than her. She eventually ended up being sued by a different employee on a different matter. So in my case it was an entirely different scenario when I was asked to leave the dog at home....

Good morning.

My dog is extremely well behaved. She never ever barks at work. She always sits quietly under her bed.

In the interview where she was unsettled, her behaviour was simply getting out of her bed and coming to stand next to me / pawing me. This is because the interview room was small and she literally did not have enough room to properly lie down. Chairs were being moved, bumped against her, it was a glass interview room and other people outside were stopping to tap the glass and go oh look at the cute dog!

Normally I bring her blanket and a few treats to help her settle.

She is one of the dogs on the Assistance Dogs UK website, so as I said, legally recognised, keeps me safe at work and at home, as well as out and about. She wears a full uniform and there is signage around my office floor explaining why she's there, what she does etc.

I have had a previous role in this company that was entirely customer facing. Not one customer in all that time complained about my dog but that may be outing if I were to go into detail about the job.

*under my desk!

I have two potential things to complain about.

I remember your last post. You got loads of advice and then had it deleted.

Aren’t you just doing the same thing again?

The way the interviewers behaved towards your dog at the interview, and the comments made, strongly suggests to me, a former union rep (TSSA), that they thought your dog is a pet. They treated her like a pet and mentioned their own pets. I'd definitely raise this at your meeting. If they did think your dog is a pet; firstly they showed inexcusable ignorance of something absolutely crucial to you doing your job and their responsibilities as your employer. Then in asking if your service dog went everywhere with you and communicating in the way they did, they displayed an attitude that suggested they thought having your dog in work was strange and perhaps shouldn't be allowed. They way you describe it, it definitely sounds to me that they may well have passed a judgment on you, prior to the interview, which must have influenced the decision they made.

As a union rep I'd want this raised in writing, and also to investigate whether the same bias occurred in your previous interview.

Who got the internal job, do you know? Is it someone who very likely did a duff interview?
On the one hand you think you’ve been labelled a complainer, on the other hand you want to complain you were not given the job. They are not going to agree, then give you the job after all. So you will be seen as a complainer!
Your manager was totally out of order. I’m not sure that the interviewers were (if you turned up without the dog they believed you need all the time)
You could apply for jobs outside of this organisation. You could positively try to educate the organisation.
Discrimination is real and it’s rife and it’s not fair, no you shouldn’t have to cajole and work to get people to understand, but the alternative is you’re the complainer. And I say this as a disabled person.

Is it normal for you to take a dog bed to a meeting? I mean one at your normal desk I understand but do you actually have to carry a dog bed everywhere? I am guessing the interview can't have been more than 2 hours?

I have worked with a lady who had a guide dog. It was basically not there. She didn't have to faff around for it and it wasn't distracted by people walking past. Why did you complain to your manager about your dog in the first interview if she wasn't an issue? It does sound like you are trying to make an issue for your manager when she was only trying to help you with the questions etc?

The fact you aren't saying why you have to dog makes me thing it is for a more unusual and less accepted reason.

I know a lady that carries her chihuahua everywhere as a assistance dog for her disability- this is not taken as seriously as a dog that would alert for seizures for example.

Did she order you to leave the dog at home or suggest it as you implied it was a problem last time?