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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if you got fined or not

108 replies

BanginChoons · 10/07/2018 13:00

For taking your children on holiday in term time?

I'm not asking if you should or not, just if you got fined. And if you did, how long did you take them for? Did you ask for permission first? And how long did it take for the fine to come through? Thanks.

OP posts:
Graphista · 10/07/2018 18:34

Skaross I'd love if you could link to that DFE info. Especially given that it varies so much not only around the country but even from school to school.

I'm looking and I can find nothing except that schools or councils CAN invoke certain sanctions, nothing to say they HAVE to and certainly nothing with a set amount of days where you MUST report.

As with most legislation there's wording like 'schools must ensure regular attendance' 'school must ensure safeguarding of pupils' and that absence MAY indicate safeguarding issues.

But nothing prescriptive.

I'm glad there's
"No fines in Scotland" - I took dd out for a relatives overseas wedding once for a week, but head was OK about it anyway.

I can understanding instigating a procedure leading to fines for 'repeat offenders' where the child is frequently out of school for spurious reasons, but for once in a blue moon where the child usually has good attendance and keeps up with schoolwork? Nah - petty bureaucracy. And I think most headteachers are more than capable of knowing their pupils well enough, discussing with class or form teacher and deciding on a case by case basis.

"If they need to be sick they go to the bathroom." Lovely - you know that's a great way to spread illness round a whole school and their families inc pregnant mum's, immunocompromised kids & adults, elderly & frail relatives - not to mention the teachers! Unnecessary presenteeism and selfish. Rather smacks of you using the school as childcare so you don't have to care for a sick child!

If the govt were genuinely concerned about this they'd deal with the holiday companies & airlines pricing structures!

While dd was educated in Scotland I was educated in England mostly (army brat, also went to school in Scotland and Germany). It was rare for parents to take children out of school but if they did, for weddings, funerals (army kids so most living far from extended family), sometimes for a particular holiday there wasn't all this angst from the schools. Also leave could be hard to get during school holiday time for some or families would feel it necessary to take time to connect when the serving parent returned from deployment.

I've lots of friends with children that have/are being educated in England, some of them have taken kids out of school (particularly the army brats who've ended up settling away from 'home') again for family reasons or the occasional holiday. None have been fined to my knowledge.

If there's anyone reading this in the know - where does the fine money go?

"Sorry 5 days is our LA rules, I assumed it was the same for everyone. Apologies" but you said it was dfe rules.

"Why do we all accept that mess, I haven't found one person - head teacher included - who believe the current system is ok." Same. I've also a number of friends & 1 relative teaching in England. They all say that it's just extra headache for them and doesn't actually improve attendance.

In addition most schools seem to do sod all the last week of term, which is when many parents who do this time it, especially the last week before summer break, so they're not actually missing anything.

Yes school/education is important - it's not the ONLY important thing in a child's life.

"But it's a choice to work in the leisure industry." Yea cos jobs arec SO easy to come by right now 🙄 especially in parts of the country mainly reliant on tourist income.

whydidIbother · 10/07/2018 18:38

My LA gives ASBOs alongside fines.

ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen · 10/07/2018 18:49

The more education they miss the worse they will perform academically. I value an Education - my children all go to school/hail/ rain or shine. Even in heavy snow they go. If they need to be sick they go to the bathroom. 190 days to turn into school out of 365. How hard is that? Missing Education seriously impacts on life chances.

@Tjzmummabear That is utter nonsense. I used to miss at least two weeks every summer so my mum could take us abroad for 2 months to the country where her family live. I ended up going to Oxbridge.

The hysteria over missing school is just one of the most ridiculous aspects of modern education.

Lucyccfc · 10/07/2018 18:59

Took my DS out of school in 2016 and tagged 6 days onto the May half term, but didn't get fined. It was at a time when they stopped fines for a short time, as there was a parent who won a court case against fines and it was going to appeal.

Didn't do it for a cheap holiday - took my DS to a huge sporting event. Head teacher told us to have an amazing time and she got him up in assembly when he got back to tell the other kids about it.

Came top of his class in his SATS and is in top set for all subjects, so had no impact at all. Except his language skills improved, he met people from all over Europe and tried food that he would never eat in the UK.

Skarossinkplungerridesagain · 10/07/2018 19:27

Graphista Page 17 of the DfE guidance in School Attendance says that Head Teachers should not grant leave except in exceptional circumstances. When cases are referred to the LA they make recommendations as to whether they will pursue it or not. As I explained they need the case to be watertight and a lot of schools don't (or possibly chose not) to conform which is why there are differences across the board. I work in one of the worst LA's for attendance so we have to come down on them quite hard.

BrownTrowsers · 10/07/2018 19:28

It's cheaper to pay the fine than holiday prices so I'd still do it, fine or not!

Skarossinkplungerridesagain · 10/07/2018 19:31

whydidIbother Fines and Asbo's! Ouch. To be honest if parents chose to take term time holidays and pay the fine I don't have an issue with it. Although I'm pretty pissed off that on my salary I can't afford to go on holiday this year because I have to take school holidays!

CuppaSarah · 10/07/2018 19:33

We took dd out for 4 days and weren't fined. She would have been back for the Friday late morning as we left earlier than expected since we were all shattered, but dd came down with an awful sickness bug on the Friday too so no chance of that.

FireworksBaby · 10/07/2018 19:36

Took 2DC out of school, refused permission for both, got fined for 1 months afterwards, no fine for the other. Infants and juniors, but part of the same school. Seems to be fairly inconsistent whether you're fined or not!

immortalmarble · 10/07/2018 19:39

Can’t believe you send your vomiting child in Shock

lljkk · 10/07/2018 19:39

I didn't get fined, primary age kid, 10 days last October. I think I got a bit of a terse letter is all. YMMV.

Graphista · 10/07/2018 19:54

Whydidi - what on earth does stick + stick achieve other than alienating the very families with children most vulnerable to leaving school early? Crazy.

Ska
I take it you mean:

"Can a parent take their child on holiday during term time?
Head teachers should only authorise leave of absence in exceptional circumstances. If a head teacher grants a leave request, it will be for the head teacher to determine the length of time that the child can be away from school. Leave is unlikely, however, to be granted for the purposes of a family holiday as a norm"

"and it's not me or the headteacher it's the DFE that set the rules." Is what you said.

And as I suspected - it's guidance not set in stone

And

"You can only be fined if it's 5 or more days if that's any help." Which you then had to admit wasn't true.

It's nowhere near as clear or prescriptive as you tried to make out

I work in one of the worst LA's for attendance so we have to come down on them quite hard

Why? You seem almost gleeful in reporting these families, is support even considered an option? Sometimes you catch more flies with honey...

Celticmombella · 10/07/2018 19:54

Can't believe this. I'm in Ireland and we don't have to ask permission to take child out or get find. They can miss up to 20 days a year before you get reported and they let you know 10 days, but if u have a sick note from doctors or proper explanation it's fine. I took my son out for 3 weeks in total... 2 weeks were Easter holidays so 1 actually week of school. We went out new Zealand to see family. Told school and they were have a great time, send us a post card and when yiu come back you can show all your class the photos of your holidays.

EggysMom · 10/07/2018 19:57

There aren't many perks to having a child whose disabilities are such that they attend a special school ... but not being fined for term-time holidays is one Smile Between 6 and 10 days off every June, depending on where we go, and it's always been authorised by the Head as 'exceptional circumstances'.

Larasshadow · 10/07/2018 19:58

Some friends of ours got fined for taking their children out of school for only a couple of days. Now and holidays that overlap school for a day or 2 the children are 'sick'.

TheOrigFV45 · 10/07/2018 20:00

Took DS2 (then yr 3) at the very end of the school year for 2 weeks. DS1 has just finished A levels. I had finally got to the other side of a bitter divorce.

HD approved the holiday.

Dhalandchips · 10/07/2018 20:02

I got a letter saying the holiday wasn't authorised, but I haven't been fined yet. This was March...

Ragwort · 10/07/2018 20:09

My DS's teacher (secondary school) was allowed four days leave to attend an overseas wedding so I would hope they would allow pupils to take time off occasionally.

Fishbiscuits · 10/07/2018 20:30

We’re on holiday now, our six year old is missing the last four days of school (Leicestershire). The head teacher approved our request for holiday.

dungandbother · 10/07/2018 20:49

My LA is five days but within a rolling 100 day period. And is related to %attendance leading up to it.

If you ask me, heads that fine two days have got way too much time on their hands and should put their time to better use. There's so much paperwork to raise a fine. Takes at least an hour if you ask me. Longer when the over zealous head calls meetings with teachers to check the fine would be water tight.

If you really delve into the attendance policy of your school, you'll figure out what is achievable. 4.5 days near end of year will keep % high enough to not qualify for the fine.
Call in sick for a week, a temp for a day or two followed up with diarrhoea also happens a lot. Symptoms you'd never go to the doctor for.

My DS has had three sick bugs this year dropping his attendance to 90%. He's still got greater depth for reading and maths and expected for writing.
I have no idea of his schools policy as I work term time so it doesn't factor.

But I know my schools rules inside out. It's all there to read on the school website at least it should be

hidengosqueak · 10/07/2018 21:08

2 years ago took both dcs out for 2 weeks, first time ever. Dd1 at high school no fine. Dd2 at primary and was due to be away on very expensive school trip with child that had assaulted her 24 times in a year ( no exaggeration letters home to prove) they referred us for a fine.
I replied to county by email stating I wasn't paying and if they wished to take me to court I was happy to go and bring my evidence with me. ( I included scanned copies of all incidence ) fine was waved and suddenly abusive child was removed !

Anon12345ABC · 10/07/2018 21:59

Tbh, I think I should fine the school for all the hours my DC are missing their education.

Before Christmas, they spent a couple of weeks watching films, hardly any work at all, then endless play practice.

It's a faith school and I was unaware until very recently just how many hours per week this faith takes up. At the moment I think it's about 5 hours a week and it is at the expense of more important lessons like science, history and geography. My junior age child actually asked me what geography was recently! They do science every few weeks.

Neither DC seems to have done much work for weeks. More endless play practice and apparently the Year 6's haven't done proper work since their SATs ended, which given there is 2 months of school after SATs, I think that's shit tbh. Both DCs said they are learning nothing new anymore and haven't done for a while.

A term time holiday seems to be the least of the problems.

Hellohah · 10/07/2018 22:03

4 days (as the Monday was a bank holiday). Week before Easter half term (in year 6 too, so right before SATS). Asked permission, it was a family wedding, they said no but went anyway. Think if it was 5 days, then we would have been fined.

MrsRudyRudpoo · 10/07/2018 22:11

I work in attendance for a school. If you take 5 days off unauthorised you will get a fine at my school. If this happens again, for example the following school year, our local authority no longer issues another fine, that parent will be invited to the town hall for an interview under caution (also known as a PACE interview). My LA is really trying to crack down on parents taking kids out of school as an annual thing

winterisstillcoming · 10/07/2018 22:12

I think as PPs ha e said, it varies from LA to LA. There's always a risk.

Do show that you value the relationship you have with the school by making sure that the children don't miss out on vital things like SATS, or transition days to high school etc.