That anyone can claim to be a photographer nowadays!

[Idolikeanicepieceofcake]

This really grinds my gears. How is it that people think that by buying a fancy camera they can then start selling their services as a professional photographer??
There's a mum at parkrun who always seems to be doing some sort of get rich quick scheme, and now she is touting her photography "business". We are trying to find a photographer for next year and she keeps hinting to me that she could do it (charging the usual wedding fee of course!). It makes me wonder how many of these so-called professionals are actually just some person who got a camera off ebay. Also, shouldn't she have a DBS check if she is advertising to photograph people's kids and babies? Rant over, this heat makes me cranky.

Depends there are some excellent amatuers and some awful professional photographers.
One of our local high street photographers was awful with out of focus pictures in the window, they survived for years. Another one who was doing the round of shopping centres taking photos of kids in a loveseat again was really badly set up as she u

Used to focus of the seat not the child.
Ask h

Sorry for that having problems with phone.

Ask her for her portfolio of wedding photos and see what she comes up with.
Businesses got to start somewhere but if they are starting up then they usually do a few weddings cheap or free to build portfolio and get ecperience.

I agree. I think if you take a zillion digital photos you’ll get enough decent ones to pass off a job as a professional. That said we had an amateur do our wedding (he was a good friend) and our photos are lovely. If you have an eye and a good camera and some knowledge of lighting isn’t that all you actually need?

I agree with the above. And I think it's always been the case.
When we were looking for wedding photographers 20 years ago we had one we looked at that all the photos looked like the kind of snaps you'd take yourself with a disposable camera. he called himself a "casual style" but as far as I could see it meant he went round snapping randomly.
Half the photos he showed us were obscured by someone walking across the middle etc. He was the most expensive one we looked at too.

My dsis wedding photographer talked the talk very well I believe. But when she came to actually taking them she wasn't good. One example was I was a bridesmaid and she wanted to take a photo of all the bridesmaids holding hands dancing in a circle. So we took hands and danced slowly round-to cries of "that's too fast,". So I slowed down to a walk, which apparently was also too fast. So we ended up arranged standing still... but the actual photo was offcentred.
Then when she gave the photos to dsis she only gave the ones she thought were "the best" which meant despite saying they'd take 200 photos, dsis got less than 50.

Otoh bill's photographer was a family friend who did it for fun, and took some great ones.

Also, shouldn't she have a DBS check if she is advertising to photograph people's kids and babies

Why? Parents will be there all the time and in most cases.

Yes anyone can become a photographer. Just as anyone with an oven can say they're a cake maker and anyone with a laptop can say they're a freelance writer. But that's not the same as actually getting work and completing it to a standard acceptable to a paying client.

Our professional hyped up the colour so every pic, except black and white are garish. Grrrrr.

I can see how it happens.

I did a few photography courses and spend most

Sorry I hit post accidentally!

Anyway I can see how it happens.

I did my photography course and am a very enthusiastic amateur photographer. I mainly do landscapes as a hobby and If I'm a guest at a wedding I will take a few interesting shots. My cousins used one of mine as her main wedding photo and put it in her wall on a giant canvass. I felt really honoured!

I get told all the time that I should set up in business as a photographer or that I should sell my photos of the local area.

But doing professional photography is a whole different ball game.

You need all the best equipment and a whole lot more skill than you can pick up in the two 10 week courses I've done.

But people don't listen - they think setting up as a photographer is easy. I know two professional photographers and they are amazing and highly skilled.

I also know a couple of artist type photographers who put on shows at galleries and try to sell their work. They both admit there is no money in it and they do it just for pleasure.

A friend recently used an enthusiastic amateur to photograph her wedding. On the day it was raining and so all the photography had to be done inside the venue. He didn't have any lighting equipment and none of the photos were any good. She got better images from other people's iPhone snaps.

Maybe have a look at her photos & judge her on them?

I was in a camera club full of amateurs for years & some of them were way better than any of the "professionals" on the high street...

She has posted a lot of photos on social media, they are not what I would expect if I was paying someone. I have asked her in passing if she has started a course, or had already done one, she has said that she doesn't think that is necessary.
I know that there are a lot of very good amateur photographers out there, and I would employ someone with experience and a nice portfolio, but I'm talking about the people who think that it's as simple as point and click.

the art and craft of photography took a nose-dive once digital became accessible, no need to understand how the camera worked, no need to previsualise what an image would be like once you've got immediate feedback, and, most importantly, no cost involved so people could take 1000s of shots in the hope something would be ok.

The fact that Samsung are making a big point that the camera on their latest phone has some aperture control pretty well sums up where we are now, and with all the built-in image processing that goes on without any knowledge of the user, most photos now all look the same.

A simple test would be to ask if the photographer could shoot on FP4 as you want some actual negatives. True pros would probably jump at the chance, whilst the others would have no idea.

My husband is a good hobby photographer. There is a world of difference between him and a professional. Our wedding photographer could just take a quick snap and know it would be perfectly composed, focused etc. He knew all the staff at the venue and was able to confidently liaise and ajust timings if needed. He was able to manage group photography and be in control of people. He had expensive equipment, the right editing software, permanent off-site storage of back-ups etc. I have no doubt there was significant added value to using a professional over a good ameteur.

Good on the woman for trying!! OP stop being unreasonable and selfish. It's none of your business what she does. Let her get on with her life and stop being so judgemental.
You can always say no to her. She hasn't got a gun to your head ffs.

I'm not only judging her, I'm judging every person who thinks they are able to do a professional persons job with little or no training. I have politely declined her offer, but will continue to be irritated. I must dash, I've bought myself a ride on lawnmower and am off to start a business as a landscape gardener..

I'm judging every person who thinks they are able to do a professional persons job with little or no training.

Do you have any idea what's involved in Photography nowadays?

The mystical days of darkrooms and red lights are long gone - the camera itself is more intelligent than the photographer and a hell of a lot of work is done post production.

Plus, the ability to reel off 50 shots in a few seconds guarantees at least good one.

I say this as someone who was a "serious amateur".

And ref your Landscape Gardener reference, you could certainly hire yourself out for mowing lawns!!

My MIL is a professional photographer. The reason being she has a semi-pro camera and a pro flash unit. My FIL actually said MIL is a professional based on her equipment. She has no experience and her technique is very basic but yep, she’s a pro et al.

DH has a semi pro camera, lots of lighting equipment and some expensive lenses. He would describe himself as a serious amateur. He does a lot of model shoots, gets together with others and hire models for the day etc.
Also i dont think he would do a wedding as he would worry too much and put pressure on himself to get it right.

Don’t be ridiculous IFailed asking a photographer if they could shoot on a specific film type would prove nothing, what a strange thing to suggest!

Like a pp said, having a (d)slr doesn’t make anyone a photographer any more than having an oven makes you a cake maker.

Yanbu. Two different people on my fb have done this and their photos are not very good quality at all.

As (two) professional wedding photographers my business partner and I have a few views on this subject, and a few tips.

Everyone has to start their business somewhere but they need to start with the right approach and skills. We launched in 2015 and did so with full public liability & professional indemnity insurance, a website where people could see our past work, two professional grade camera bodies each, lenses and spares of each type or ones that would cover, lighting equipment etc. and prices to reflect our considerable skills. We both had a full working knowledge of Lightroom and Photoshop.

There are plenty of excellent amateur photographers out there but they won’t be insured and I know for a fact some shooting weddings don’t have spare kit in case something breaks or malfunctions; their cameras are mid-range and can’t get good results in dark churches – even we struggle sometimes and one of my cameras bodies cost £3000. Have they got the right lighting equipment and do they know how to use it? Do they have the software skills to process the RAW files they shoot and do they have the 20 -25 hours necessary to weed (2000 shots looked at for 5 secs each is nearly 3 hours, just to weed out the ones you want to work on) and process the shots they want to work on and deliver?

Between us Paul and I shoot somewhere between 3700 and 4500 images on a full day wedding and we’ll deliver 450 – 600 final shots. We can be on the go from 07:00 and not get into bed once images have been backed up etc. till 01:00 the next morning.

A wedding photographer should also guide you, helping with the timeline so stress is reduced to a minimum. We all (tog, BN& G, guests) dislike the shooting gallery “formal” shots but they are necessary; we all want them over as quickly as possible with the least disruption to the flow of the day as possible. A good wedding photographer will give advice to the right number of formals shots given family size and guest numbers, where they should be taken and when they should be taken, bearing in mind the weather doesn’t always play ball and always taking into account the B & G’s wishes.
If you ask a family member or friend to do it because he has a great camera and “his photos are great” you are risking things for sure. The stress shooting a wedding is considerable. It’s also extremely tiring. He won’t be able to be in two places at once and he’ll not get the breadth of shots that a non-guest would do. Both my nieces are getting married next year and i’ve already said I don’t want to be the photographer on either gig.

Here are some tips and things to consider ask your wedding photographer:
• Do they meet / talk you before taking your booking? If not how can they understand what you want / need and more importantly can they meet your requirements?
• Do you get on with them – I don’t mean is he a nice bloke or woman but do you have a rappor? It’s essential if they are going to get the best from you.
• Will they sit down with you before the wedding and after booking to run through the day and make sure all is clear?
• Do they visit the venues before the wedding to recce? If not how can they know the light and plan shots / prepare?
• Can they travel to a different part of the country or overseas if it’s a destination wedding you have planned and they are not local?
• Has the photographer got public liability and professional indemnity insurance? Will it be you getting sued if a guest falls over a tripod?
• Do they have back up of all equipment of the same quality in case of equipment failure on the big day?
• Can they provide references from previous clients?
• What post-processing do they do to the photos they take (if they do none this may well indicate someone with few skills)?
• Have they a website and are the photos on it their own (some steal other people’s images and pass off as their own…).
• Are they cheap? If they are massive alarm bells should start ringing. Running even a basic a wedding photography business is expensive.
• What is a full day? Is it bridal prep through till drunk-people-on-the-dancefloor, or is it guests arrive at church to first dance…?
• Look at their work to make sure you like there style. Amazingly some people rely just on a recommendation.
• How many togs are there? Just one is fine for a smaller do under 50 people, more than that and you’ll need two if they are to cover the whole day comfortably.
• What is included in the package price? Album (what type, from where and how many spreads), USB stick, online gallery?
• Can they arrange for prints to be delivered to your door are you left to go to some High Street shop (pleeease don’t. Even if you don’t get them through your photographer get them printed by a pro lab like Loxley Colour).

I hope this helps someone. It’s expensive to get great photos but you’ll remember them long after the wedding so it pays to do your research and take no chances. And if anyone needs advice you can contact me on here via our FB page or via our website. We are always happy to talk and have in the past happily guided couples who have not booked us as we see it as protecting our industry.

Cheers all,
Carl

[Edited by MNHQ to remove link]