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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sports day, trans, so many mumsnet flash points!

57 replies

Jorah · 07/07/2018 06:58

Dds school sports day is supposed to be an inclusive day, so there are five option blocks and you choose one from each group. One is dance, yoga based, one has things like mindfulness and Wii sports (!). She's chosen athletics in one and rounders in another.

But the last block has either football for boys or netball for girls.

Dd doesn't enjoy netball but is very good at football. She's in a local team and loves it.

She asked if she could play football - a definite no.

But a girl in year 10 has recently come out as trans. So he's a boy. He now has a boys name although still uses the girls toilets and changing rooms. Of course, he can play football, not netball. Dd (year 7) is angry about this.

AIBU to think ridiculous sex stereotypes like this (boys football girls netball) is what makes the idea of being trans more appealing?!

OP posts:
enoughisenough12 · 07/07/2018 07:42

Here you are OP - the government has just published new guidelines for schools. It does talk about sport and does allow for sex segregation but states that both groups must be treated equally - eg in terms of resources. So different sports can be legal - especially for older children. It's not long and is worth a read - and btw it also clarifies that schools MUST provide single sex toilets / washing facilities for all children over the age of 8.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/719398/Gender-separation-guidance.pdf

Missingstreetlife · 07/07/2018 07:47

Safety issue of lone girl in team of boys after about 8. Before that girls are as strong as boys

MistressDeeCee · 07/07/2018 07:53

I agree the gender divide re sports types is silly - but actually whatever the sport is, if boys/men can hop over to the girls/women teams then they're in line for lots of trophies medals and cash prizes aren't they?

Imagine your DD excelling at sport in her field then along come the Transgirls to win. What's the point?

It's cheating in plain sight.

I think you have to be careful on exactly how you approach the school about this as you could be accused of discrimination. That's the problem.

Day to day stuff like this is a reminder that we need to keep protesting about girls and women being pushed aside in favour of male born privilege.

Roomofmyown · 07/07/2018 07:53

Our local primary school has a very successful mixed netball team and separate football teams. Girls football is hugely popular - what are they thinking?!

Original poster
Jorah · 07/07/2018 08:18

Safety issue of lone girl in team of boys after about 8. Before that girls are as strong as boys

Dd and a friend played in a mixed team at primary up to and including year 6.

Shes now 12 and plays in a girls team out of school. The FA have changed the rules so that girls teams can play against boys teams until they are 16.

OP posts:
MidniteScribbler · 07/07/2018 08:20

They had a girls football team for two terms but the teacher left and nothing else has been arranged. Yes a girls football team would be good. Perhaps I can use that as a positive way into this tricky conversation

Are you going to offer to run it? I love these parents who are all 'start a baskeball team', 'set up a homework club', without any consideration that it is just more work for a teacher. They never come to you and offer to run these 'desperately needed' extra curricular activities themselves.

Hideandgo · 07/07/2018 08:23

The trans kid has nothing to do with this situation so don’t drag him into it.

I’d be seriously complaining. If your dad wants to play football I cant see any reason why they won’t let her.

Hideandgo · 07/07/2018 08:23

Dd

Original poster
Jorah · 07/07/2018 08:24

It's a good school, well run. I am sure they are not going to be breaking any guidelines or rules. I don't think going in shouting about discrimination is going to get me anywhere.

It doesn't help that they have a head of girls PE who is obsessed with netball. They are very strong in netball but sadly that comes at the expense of all the other sports.

And don't get me started on the fact that dd has to play rounders (pointless) and not cricket (which she loves and is good at)

I wish I could afford to send her privately tbh Sad the private schools near me seem really switched on, successful girls football and cricket teams!

OP posts:
Original poster
Jorah · 07/07/2018 08:26

The trans kid has nothing to do with this situation so don’t drag him into it

I certainly wouldn't drag him into it in any communication with the school. But he has highlighted this issue to dd who rather than being accepting and kind, is livid and feels its unfair. And at home I'm inclined to agree with her I'm afraid.

OP posts:
Original poster
Jorah · 07/07/2018 08:28

They never come to you and offer to run these 'desperately needed' extra curricular activities themselves

Don't be silly. If the school needs fully qualified PE staff to run the boys football then it needs the same for girls. No I am not going to offer to bloody run it, my level of coaching would be way below what the girls need or deserve. Why shouldn't they have a 'proper' PE teacher?!

OP posts:
everythingelseisalreadytaken · 07/07/2018 08:33

The trans boy doesn't really have much to do with it except he highlights the schools intentions.

There's an argument for sex-separated sport, and if there were very few girls wanting to do it or something I could kind of get it. But the fact that a trans boy has been allowed to do it shows that this is based on gender stereotypes more than anything. I'd definitely be calling up the school.

Or - if your hope hasn't completely died:

  1. I'm pretty sure the trans boy could argue discrimination and maybe the school backed down to that. (So could your DD, by the way.)
  2. Is it possible for him to have legally changed his name etc. ? I think at a certain point the school have to have them recorded as the preferred gender.
yearofthewoman · 07/07/2018 08:38

The trans boy has a lot to do with it. If the school are giving the message that you have to be a boy to do certain things, this may contribute to a young girl thinking there's something wrong with her for wanting to do "boys things" and that she therefore must be a boy.

Original poster
Jorah · 07/07/2018 08:41

Dd has been 'triggered' her words. Shes seriously thinking of saying she identifies as a boy for the day Shock

Before anyone leaps on me I will talk her out of this but I'm enjoying her moxie for now!!

OP posts:
everythingelseisalreadytaken · 07/07/2018 08:45

The trans boy has a lot to do with it. If the school are giving the message that you have to be a boy to do certain things, this may contribute to a young girl thinking there's something wrong with her for wanting to do "boys things" and that she therefore must be a boy.

Of course, but I mean the trans boy himself; he isn't who OP's DD should be directing her anger at.

Like I said, it shows the school have based their policy on stereotypes . The trans boy has done essentially nothing, it's the fact that the school allowed him to take part that it is worrying.

MidniteScribbler · 07/07/2018 08:47

If the school needs fully qualified PE staff to run the boys football then it needs the same for girls. No I am not going to offer to bloody run it, my level of coaching would be way below what the girls need or deserve. Why shouldn't they have a 'proper' PE teacher?

Because there's such a big pool of money sitting around to hire extra PE teachers.

Original poster
Jorah · 07/07/2018 08:48

Dd is not livid with the boy himself, she doesn't know him. She's livid with the school and tbh she just doesn't understand it. It's quite a lot to have to take on board when you are 11! She is a proto feminist and was an old fashioned 'tomboy' and resents girl and boy stereotypes.

OP posts:
mumsastudent · 07/07/2018 08:48

hmm approach Uk women football & cricket team & ask them to write letter to your school re gender & sport sterio type or ask q of ofsted?

Original poster
Jorah · 07/07/2018 08:49

midnite then don't offer boys football either! They have 8 PE teachers! Glad to hear you don't think equality in sports is worth spending money on Hmm

OP posts:
everythingelseisalreadytaken · 07/07/2018 08:53

Shes seriously thinking of saying she identifies as a boy for the day

Oh goodness, definitely talk her out of it! I doubt it will work (school will just think she's taking the piss) and I daresay the other kids, especially the actual trans boy, will be very unimpressed when she comes back to school after Sports Day and no longer "identifies as a boy".

IrisAtwood · 07/07/2018 08:53

my yr 9 ds is man-sized and I wouldn't want him tackling all the yr 9 girls

There are plenty of ‘man sized’ girls around and football is supposed to be a non contact sport.

Original poster
Jorah · 07/07/2018 08:57

Dd already plays against boys out of school. She is regularly tackled by them. I can't say I enjoy watching it but it happens.

OP posts:
Gileswithachainsaw · 07/07/2018 08:58

Your poor dd

Why the fuck should the girls sports rely on volunteer parent coaches when the boys get fully qualified pe teacher .

Fucks sake

You can't treat girls like second class citizens who should be grateful for scraps then use finding excuses of blatant sexism.

Not on.at all

Gileswithachainsaw · 07/07/2018 08:58

Funding excuses

everythingelseisalreadytaken · 07/07/2018 09:01

I think unfortunately lots of schools do make the choice between girls and boys if they have to . Sometimes sexism but also are there enough girls interested at your DD's school to play ? I remember when I was at school someone tried to start a girls football team but only three signed up so it never went ahead.