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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that most Jane Austen's heroines didn't find happiness in marriage?

554 replies

bgmama · 06/07/2018 12:04

I am a big fan and I must have read the books a hundred times, but I am starting to realize that most heroes in her books are either assholes or idiots and towards the end of the book they stop being assholes or idiots and become worthy of marrying the heroine. I am not talking only of Mr Darcy here, but most others too. AIBU to think that this transformation didn't last very long and they went back to their usual ways shortly after the marriage was consummated? And that the heroines were miserable and were told to LTB at some point during their lives?

OP posts:
JaneJeffer · 06/07/2018 16:40

Has anyone read ValMcDermid's Northanger Abbey. I gave up half way.

Merryoldgoat · 06/07/2018 16:41

I love how rich the stories are - I’m interested in everyone.

In Mansfield Park I was just as taken in by The Crawfords as Edmund and the rest of the family. I thought Fanny a pain in the arse when she won’t do the play. And of course you then realise how inappropriate it all was.

And Miss Bates in Emma is amazing - she gives you ALL the infirmary you need to realise that Jane Fairfax and Frank Churchill are a secret item but we ignore her, just like everyone else does.

Austen is an absolute master.

I think her books are really about the character of a person and how ‘goodness’ is to be valued over the appearence of it.

RobinHumphries · 06/07/2018 16:44

I always blame Cassandra for Jane never marrying. Cassandra had a small pension or something after her fiancé died so whilst she wasn’t well off, she was at least independant. I think she couldn’t be without Jane so talked Jane out of marriage.

Cliveybaby · 06/07/2018 16:44

@StringandGlitter I always thought Frank Churchll and Jane Fairfax would have been very unhappy...
Not sure why really - he's a colossal flirt, treats her terribly, and is obviously a good liar, which aren't great... and she's a "tragic" kind of character...

Cliveybaby · 06/07/2018 16:45

@RobinHumphries they were supposed to be very close so maybe...
I have Cassandra on my list of names if I have a daughter but DP doesn't like it

TravellingFleet · 06/07/2018 16:47

Joining in to say that Trollope writes astonishing female characters and Mrs Oliphant is terrific - thanks for the Persephone rec.

So, Small House at Allingham - should we really be so aggrieved that she doesn’t fulfil her family’s ambitions for a happy ending?

StringandGlitter · 06/07/2018 16:49

I agree with you @cliveybaby.

He doesn’t stand up for her, mocks her with Emma, starts rumours about her and Mr Dixon. She’s very long suffering but even she’s had enough and gets herself a governess post. It’s only because the old lady dies that he marries her.

Cliveybaby · 06/07/2018 16:57

yeah I thought she was just on the point of breakin got off when the old lady died.. and then it all came out and she was stuck with him

AnnDerry · 06/07/2018 17:00

I think there's a letter from Austen to one of her many nieces in which she tells her that Jane Fairfax/Churchill dies young.

proudestofmums · 06/07/2018 17:04

I can’t agree that Marianne Dashwood is the most annoying character in English literature though she IS a runner up. Changing authors she cannot compete with Lily Dale

SchadenfreudePersonified · 06/07/2018 17:06

So, Small House at Allingham - should we really be so aggrieved that she doesn’t fulfil her family’s ambitions for a happy ending?

AU contraire - I love that Trollope doesn't take the easy way out and give her a (maritally) happy ending - but it did pee me off that er "Adonis" ruined her for other men! I was glad that years later when he was a miserable balding widower and came sniffing round again, she kicked him into touch. (Not Trollope's actual words) He must have thought that she was still holding a torch for him, the arrogant git!

TBH we have little idea how difficult life was for an unmarried woman even at the beginning of the last century, let alone before. Until the Married Woman's Property Act in about 1870, anything a woman owned became her husband's to do with as he would the minute that ring was on her finger. There was no such thing as marital rape. Unmarried women was treated with contempt unless they were very, very wealthy. No vote, no contraception, no job security, no right to refuse sex, or to indulge in it (if you wanted to) without becoming a social pariah - no rights at all really.

We can only begin to imagine the courage of the women who fought for the rights we enjoy today.

Charlotte Collins had a number of sisters - her father's money (such as it was) would have been in the main part settled on her brothers. She was a clever woman - she got herself a husband (and therefore status) and home, and as she said herself, Mr Collins had many faults, but he was not vicious. He wouldn't beat her, or abuse her, and as long as she bolstered his ego, he would cherish her. She did well by the standards of he time, I think.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 06/07/2018 17:07

JaneJeffer Grin

Ilovewhippets · 06/07/2018 17:08

Proudest - which book is Lily Dale in? I must have a read.
Did Jane Austen mean Marianne to be so annoying, or was that sort of affectedness (do I mean affectation?) considered feminine and adorable in JA's time?

proudestofmums · 06/07/2018 17:12

The Small House at Allington and I think The Last Chronicle of Barset

jamoncrumpets · 06/07/2018 17:12

I'm sure Fanny Price was v happy with her cousin and inbred children!

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 06/07/2018 17:13

I think JA meant Marianne to be annoying. It was a time when the Romantic movement was sweeping Europe and Byron, Shelley, Goethe etc must have been about as annoying as lots of the woke are now. Grin Marianne represents sensibility and shows the perils of not tempering it with sense.

OlennasWimple · 06/07/2018 17:15

I've always assumed that Charlotte gave Mr Collins a couple of children then developed "women's problems" which meant that she never slept with him again but devoted herself to running the house and raising the children and being the good vicar's wife. Perhaps after they move into the Bennett's large house, Mr Collins has an unfortunate accident (lots of stairs there, I recall....) and leaves her a widow,free to marry one of the dashing officers from the nearby garrison...

Mr Bennett better have had a cunning back up plan up his sleeve, cos turning down Mr Collins for Lizzie was incredibly, um, brave

ThunderInMyHeart · 06/07/2018 17:19

I think Elizabeth Bennett married Darcy for his house.

100% agree. I can't remember the exact prose, but when Lizzie first sees Pemberley is very telling ("GOLD-DIGGER!!!")

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 06/07/2018 17:20

Perhaps Charlotte, tragically (!) widowed early, is courted by Col Fitzwilliam.

JellyBears · 06/07/2018 17:22

Your talking about 200 years ago when the world was very different..you can’t compare them to today’s marriages.

KnitFastDieWarm · 06/07/2018 17:23

In defence of dickens, I think he writes Mrs Joe in Great Expectations well - she’s horrible, but her sense of frustration and disappointment in her lot is conveyed quite sympathetically. Agree he’s awful at writing girls and young women though!

Austen couples-wise, I actually think mr knightley and Emma would do ok. He sees the real her and loves her anyway, she can respect his intelligence and opinions while still countering them with her own.

Me and a friend had an ongoing thing where we’d assign modern jobs to Austen characters. Emma would be a city lawyer, she’d have coasted through schoo and university on her quick wit while doing minimal work and would be charming her way to the top. Elinor would be an accountant, amazing at her job and quietly working her way up the ranks. Marianne would be an actor, while Elizabeth would be a journalist a la Hadley freeman, quietly amused by those around her. Jane would be a primary school teacher and Lydia would be a YouTube star. Mary would her gone to Oxford and found her tribe in the chemistry department and the world of Warcraft society Grin

Cliveybaby · 06/07/2018 17:26

haha that's great, I can see Mary being a proper nerd!

Cliveybaby · 06/07/2018 17:26

She'd wear those ugly hipster clothes too, like huge glasses and the short fringe and ugly boxy jackets

Hassled · 06/07/2018 17:28

Isn't that the point that Jane Austen was making throughout though? These novels aren't really romances - they are books which explain that marriage is an economic necessity for women at the time. JA herself scraped by single with help from her brothers and the pittance her novels made her, but all around her were women who married out of financial need. Emma is the exception in the novels - but even she maybe wouldn't have retained her status in the village once she reached a certain age - the ridicule put on Miss Bates showed what people felt about spinsters.

OlennasWimple · 06/07/2018 17:28

I think Lizzie definitely changed her view of Darcey when she saw the house - that's why Andrew thingy had Colin Firth coming out of the water in the TV version. Modern viewers wouldn't really get the same "Oh look at the house, now I'm interested", but they understood "Phwaor"

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