To think that most Jane Austen's heroines didn't find happiness in marriage?

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I am a big fan and I must have read the books a hundred times, but I am starting to realize that most heroes in her books are either assholes or idiots and towards the end of the book they stop being assholes or idiots and become worthy of marrying the heroine. I am not talking only of Mr Darcy here, but most others too. AIBU to think that this transformation didn't last very long and they went back to their usual ways shortly after the marriage was consummated? And that the heroines were miserable and were told to LTB at some point during their lives?

On the World at One today they had an item about Sanditon. It's being adapted by Andrew Davies for ITV. I'm not quite sure whether it's being filmed or screened next year, but quite a while to go either way.

An academic, whose name I missed, talked about it. It's been a long time since I read it, so that was useful. She said it's more than just a fragment. JA wrote 12 chapters before she had to stop writing as her health failed towards the end of her life. She set it in a seaside town which had until very shortly before been a fishing village, full of nouveau riche types. No big house, no gentry. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, one of the characters is a mixed race heiress from the West Indies. The academic said AD would have a lot of decisions to make about how to end the story as JA abandoned it just at the point where there were a lot of developments about to happen. Interesting!

I have a completion of Sanditon written in the 60s I think. It's very well done but as always too focused on the romance.

I think Charlotte is a lesbian and Mr Collins is gay.

In an age before homosexuality or IVF they suited each other very well to tolerate each other physicallya couple of times to bash out and heir and a spare then lead their separate lives under one large roof.

ooh , I have Loungbourne on my shelf to read at some point ....

Yes Seven! She does say they barely have to see one another.

I would without a doubt have married Mr Collins rather than become the spinster aunt, with no say in anything, being shunted around my relatives. He was a complete idiot, but on the plus side he was honest (if deluded) sober and financially solvent.

I think that suggesting Charlotte's gay ignores her difficulties. It's sadder to assume she's straight but unattractive, and lonely.

If he's gay, it doesn't make much sense for him to immediately take an interest in the pretty one. He'd have been better waiting to see which one he got on best with, if it's all the same to him looks wise.

For status and attractive children I still think he’s want the pretty one.

I don't think he was gay. There's nothing to suggest that.

The Bennetts are all pretty though aren't they? Maybe not Mary but the other four.

There is nothing to suggest that either Charlotte or Collins is gay.

I’m wracking my brains bit apart from Henry Tilley I can’t think of another gay character. Although I’ve thought a remote possibility of Elizabeth Elliot?

@ExBbqQueen

Mary Crawford's 'rears and vices' pun is suggestive re. Admiral Crawford!

Well - you know naval tradition - "rum, sodomy, and the lash".

And to whoever recommended "Longbourn" - many thanks.

It's excellent (I'm just up to the bit where the predatory Wickham was about to have his Evil Way with the "slavey", 12 year old Polly, and is foiled by the servant, James, who he torments until James strikes him and then he forces James to leave by threatening to expose him as deserter.

It truly was intersecting yet untouching worlds - the servants being little more than furniture with the happy ability of being able to fetch and carry. Their "betters" neither knew nor cared how they felt.

There is nothing to indicate that either Charlotte Lucas or Mr Collins were gay. They are just each not particularly good looking and, in his case, pompous and far less intelligent than he believes himself to be! He is not a bad man though and was probably kind to Charlotte and appreciated her.

There is also nothing to indicate that Henry Tilney is gay - that he has a good knowledge of fabrics doesn't prove anything. Don't gender stereotype! He is actually my favourite Austen hero, for his sense of humour (which Mr Darcey is sadly lacking). And Catherine is my second favourite Austen heroine (after Elizabeth B) - she's a sweet girl, full of imagination. Naive, yes, but give her a chance, she's seventeen. I hope that Henry and Catherine were very happy together.

I’d forgotten about that joke. I’m not sure about Tilney as I haven’t read NA for years. Just what I’ve seen inferred here. I’ll dig it out for a read on holiday.

Thank you so much for this thread, I’m enjoying it so much, and all the added articles too

Might give Longbourn a try. I very much enjoyed Pride, Prejudice and Zombies after all.

I thought Eligible by Curtis S was terrible ☹️ which was a shock as I am a massive fan of hers. It's like a really tacky chick lit book you pick up in the hotel gift shop because you've read all your other books.

Lydia did nothing worse than what Georgiana Darcy had before her- ran off with Wickham unmarried and 15.

It’s telling of JA’s commentary that GD escapes reputation intact but Lydia is shamed.

One rule for the rich?

Would Darcy still have been seen as a good catch if the wider community had known about GD’s downfall.

It would surely come to light when she later marries?

Darcy caught Georgiana before the planned elopement had taken place.

Seven isn’t that why Darcy is so determined to track down Wickham? He feels guilty for being unable to expose wickham as it would also expose Georgianna?

@stringandglitter thanks for the History of English podcast recommendation! I’m three episodes in and very much enjoying it!

@lana thanks for the book recommendation - I will check it out too. One of my regrets in not doing English at university is not having got the chance to study Old English at all.

Lydia did nothing worse than what Georgiana Darcy had before her- ran off with Wickham unmarried and 15.

Georgiana did confess all to D'Arcy before the elopement took place, because she felt guilty, which is why it didn't happen. Lydia felt no remorse at any stage and seemed oblivious to the lucky escape (from ruined reputation) that she'd had. That's really the difference between the two.