To wonder why every cleaner I've ever had leaves early?

[N0rfolkEnchants]

Do you have a cleaner? Is this normal?

I have one as a treat I suppose. Although I work from home for the most part, I have 2 hours a week to do bathrooms and kitchen and floors. It's a big help

Anyway I had to ditch my last cleaners as they were sloping off early, bringing children with them and not doing a good job. So I've found a new one and she comes highly recommended

We chatted about what I wanted and she asked to do 3 hours as an initial clean, it'll be just the 2 hours I want afterwards. Fine I said. So why oh why did she arrive at 8.35am and leave at 11.10am? A shortfall of 25 minutes. I'd left the cash for her as she's asked for this for the first week or two and then we will do it via bank transfer

I was at home when she got there and I then went out to give her space and I cane back at 11.10am and she'd left. She had done a good job but I've paid for 25 mins that she didn't do

Is this normal? Do I just suck this up? Or when you're paying an hourly rate should they actually stay for the time you're paying them for?

My cleaner (fortunately) is completely the opposite. I have to give her a countdown to when her time is up or she would still be here 15 minutes later. I now get her to down tools by pouring her a glass of sherry

I'm dealing with this with my cleaner. After a chat, we agreed I'd draw up a List of "extra" tasks to work through - ie skirting boards, wash windows, deep clean oven etc. So she fills her two hours. I think perhaps the two hours is more than enough time to do the basics and then she's not sure what to do after that 🤷‍♀️

You have to decide whether you’re paying her by task, so cleaning the bathrooms, or whether you’re paying for 2 hours or whatever. If the latter, you have to give her a list of work to do in order of priority so she does her 2 hours and leaves, wherever she got up to on your list.

Can't you say to her - I noticed you left 25 minutes earlier so I'd appreciate it if you finish you could start on this pile of ironing?

I'm paying for the hours as this is WHAT MY CLEANER HAS SPECIFIED

We get that, but there can still be some ambiguity or disparity between what's in your head and what's in hers...

Imagine this conversion:

You: I want you to do the bathrooms, kitchen and downstairs floors please.
Her: OK, well, that's about 2 hours work, but the first time might need a really good clean so about 3 hours work. So, that was be 15*3hrs - 45.00
You: OK, £45.00, deal

So, you are thinking you're paying for 3 hours, and she's thinking you're paying for bathrooms, kitchen and downstairs floor.
You believe you're paying by the hour, and she's believing her price was based on an estimated number of hours work (not quite the same).

She then comes to your house, works hard and gets it done in 2.5 hours. She's still expecting 45.00 as she believes she worked like crazy in order to buy herself some extra time for her next appointment.
You end up feeling ripped off by 30 minutes.

Of course, if she did a crap job, or didn't even do what was agreed, you're totally right to get rid of her and find a better person to do it.
I'm just attempting to illustrate how easily two people can have a different view about what was agreed - and why I think it's always better to have a fixed price for a fixed set of tasks. Then it doesn't matter how slow or how fast she is, your cost is fixed and it's down to her to make sure the job is of the expected quality. She can work like crazy and do it all in 1 hour if she likes as long as it's spotless :-)

Can't you say to her - I noticed you left 25 minutes earlier so I'd appreciate it if you finish you could start on this pile of ironing?

That will never work. They will just slow down to make sure the basic tasks take 2 hours, they won't work harder on the basic tasks in order to be given more work to fill the time they've saved.

If she did everything you asked, there is no reason to complain. During that 3 hours she should have a break, if in a normal job

If my cleaner left half an hour early and still charged me for it I'd be fucked off and look for a new cleaner. Just because you outsource some household jobs does not make it a treat nor does it mean you treat them different to any other worker you hire.

When it comes down to it, if you have a shitty work ethic then that’s not going to change.

My husband employs lots of young labourers during their summer holidays or in term time if they’re available. About 80 per cent of them are given a specific task on site (move some bricks, shift some soil etc) and they do it, then stand around on their phones and wait for the next task to be given.

About 15 per cent task for another task when they’ve finished the one allocated to them.

The best five per cent find another task to do themselves (clean the mixer, tidy the site etc). Husband even found one giving the van a wash when he’d found himself at a loose end. They’re the ones we give big payrises too and do anything we can to keep hold of. It’s amazing how rare they are these days.

Every job I’ve done (and I’ve done some crap jobs. Swiss roll factory anyone?) I’ve always done to the best of my ability and worked really hard from the start of my shift to the end. I couldn’t do it any other way. But you can’t really teach that attitude to an adult, I don’t think. I’d sack your cleaner and keep on trying to find someone who knows the value of hard work.

I think whether you view it as a fixed price or a fixed hours is indicative of your attitude. So whilst it might be technically correct to slope off early if you've finished early, it doesn't demonstrate a very good work ethic. My cleaner will sometimes finish the normal list of jobs early and so will find additional tasks. This is the difference between a good cleaner and an excellent cleaner and is why I value her so highly. And why she always has a waiting list of clients!

If she did everything you asked, there is no reason to complain. During that 3 hours she should have a break, if in a normal job

That’s not true jade.

You are entitled to a 15 minute break every four and a half hours.

Yes, every cleaner I have had tries this, they never try it when I happen to be at home though. The cost of 25 or 45 minutes extra payment for nothing adds up to a significant cost Over a few months.

You're both wrong JaniceBattersby, it's 20 minutes for every 6 hours of work.

it's 20 mins for 6 hours, but 11 hours rest across days (both unpaid)

But that's all besides the point.

I'm a cleaner (only recently started.)
If I'd finished all of my tasks I would go home and yes accept pay for the full amount, as I'd got everything done.
That said, I did once finish an hour early and decided to vacuum the living room, dust and tidy and did some dishes: I also put a wash load on. Left when I was meant to. Got an angry text off the client telling me that I wasn't told to clean the living room and as I'd done the kitchen and both bathrooms already I should've just left, how dare I go into the living room and clean without permission and she didn't want my services again.
So I just do what I'm told and go home... maybe just say "A, B and C are my priorities but if you get time can you do D and E as well? No worries if you can't, or can only do a bit."

Jade - you're so wrong I don't know where to start maybe you can start with brushing up on your employment law? I don't employ her by the way - look that up while you're at it

I didn't set her specific tasks to reiterate. I said what my priorities were and what I'd like doing once those priority tasks were done if there was time

There was time. She left 25 minutes early

Chicken - if I were you I'd double check that the person you're cleaning for is happy for you to do that. As in, are they paying you to complete tasks which take however long and then you leave? Or are you charging by the hour and if you are, they're happy for you to just leave early and still pay you?

TornFromTheInside has absolutely nailed it.

I work with a lot of domestic cleaning business owners (UK only) in one of my roles and always try to encourage them to decide on whether they are using the 'hourly rate model' OR the 'charge per job' based upon the scope of work the client has asked for, but please, please - not BOTH at once or mass confusion reigns!

The clearer both parties (cleaner/client) can be about BOTH of their expectations of the arrangement going forward AT the point of selling the service and agreeing the price etc the less we will have this confusion in the industry.

As PP have already mentioned, it works much better to agree what is to be done, ask for a price for that service and, so long as you are happy with the result, to pay that price. The example given above of a plumber who fixes something is apt. It will not be easy for someone to estimate how long it will take to do any job, so anyone new is likely to overestimate by a bit to cover themselves.

If you are happy with the standard, but think they should be able to do more in the time, then you could ask them to adjust their estimate after they have done a few cleans. You could agree less time or include more jobs. If you are not happy with the standard of cleaning, then find someone else.

The more you treat the transaction in a business like manner, as if you were at work, rather than at home, the easier it will be to agree and achieve a good service.

Is it possible there was some confusion and she did 2 hours? As you don’t know what time she left

No, no confusion at all. She said she'd like to do 8.30 to 11.30. She turned up at 8,35am and I left to give her some space etc. Told her to just leave the black door for me as I wouldn't be far behind her leaving - I don't give a key of course, no need really as I work from home. I got back at 11.10 and no sign of her. So she could have left at any time before this for all I know

Plus we had discussed me leaving her the cash which I did in an envelope. 45 quid. 3 hours work. She took the cash of course but she didn't stay for 3 hours

Dunno why there’s all this angst. Speak to her, say you know she left early and that you’re paying her by the hour. Ask if she’d rather be paid for what she does ie your list of tasks. Otherwise, tell her you want the full 2 hours and that there is extra stuff to do if she finishes early. Leave a list of suggestions.

that you’re paying her by the hour.

If you want to pay by the hour, rather than by results, by all means do just this. It will not ensure that you get the best service you can get,

I'm totally with you N0rfolk - you paid £45 which is a decent whack and you expected to get 3 hrs of cleaning.

I really don't get all this - oh well you have to write them a list and prioritise and just be happy with a half-arsed job.

If I want someone to do a shoddy job on cleaning the house I can do that myself for free. Equally - without meaning to be offensive - it's fairly obvious what needs cleaned in a house and once someone's finished the core jobs, if they've still got time left, it's not rocket science to go oh yes I'll clean the skirting board or wipe down the cupboard doors or whatever.

Underneath there seems to be a bit of an undertone about someone getting a cleaner and daring to expect them to do the job they are paid for.

says me whose cleaner does half an hour less than she is paid for. I rationalise it as she put up her rates a couple of years ago - I saw on her website. I tried to pay her the new amount, but she said no as I'd introduced loads of clients to her. So effectively I am paying for 1.5 hrs work. And she is very nice and generally good in the time she chooses to spend.