To think that skincare is a load of old rubbish?

[GodivaEater]

It dawned on me today while in Boots that the size of the men’s toiletries bit was one aisle and the women’s stretched into the dozens. And then I thought- men for the most part just wash their faces and then get on with their day. Your average man does not use serums, toners, face masks, moisturisers, nowt.

So why do we as women believe we need all this shit? Why do we buy in to all this shit? Why do some of us spend so much money on this shit? (That includes me in the past). And isn’t it all making our skin worse? You rarely see men with bad skin. Ask the average woman however and most reckon we/they need to sort their skin out.

The older I get the more I think that skincare is a load of bollocks and that most of us don’t need to buy in to any of it. And I say that as someone who has struggled with acne and horrible oily skin for 20 odd years.

Thoughts?

The less I do to my skin the better it looks. Although I do believe that some targeted skincare can help people who have problem skin, but not the shave of 10 years variety.

The only difference I have ever really seen was after a few years of using cleansing wipes I bought a cleanser and a toner and my skin looked all the better for it. Used that for a year or so and have been using Garnier Micellar water. Recently decided to go back to the cleanser and toner (Decleor) and my skin looks noticeably clearer. I don’t believe toners do much, but I like the smell of it and the sensation on my skin. I use whatever eye cream is on offer when I run out and a very basic moisturiser - usually Nivea Soft or one from M & S sensitive skin range. In the winter I usually have a tube of Avene Skin Rescue if the weather has beaten me up. Ultrasun Face spf 30 is used as a primer under make up.

I genuinely don’t know how people manage both time wise and money wise on applying a myriad of products. All these skin care gurus online don’t seem to have skin that I would class as glowing and healthy, perhaps their use of multiple products is not doing them any good either.

We are fed a load of bollocks (or boswellox in faux scientific parlance!), but increasingly so are men. I notice Dermot O’Leary has a male skin care range in M & S.

I used to buy lots of make up and products when I was overweight. I was trying to make myself feel better. I lost the weight and no longer buy much in the way of products. I would prefer to spend 30 quid on a great belt than a pseudo scientific serum in a bottle. But I can understand why the promise of feeling better about yourself can lead you to buy loads of stuff your skin doesn’t need.

When I'm pregnant/ on a pill I can't take anymore, my skin is clear. When I'm not, it breaks out very regularly.

I have spent a fortune on various skin care bits and pieces over the years, but the reason is I haven't found anything that reliably works. This includes dove soap and water. I absolutely believe that for most women, there is a skincare regime that helps their skin be as good as it can be- and by that I largely mean not painfully tight, not coming out in blotches or rashes or painful acne, rather than miraculously a decade younger. I think that the reason people constantly spend money is less because it's all rubbish and more because it's not marketed to us in a way that helps us understand what will actually work for our own individual skin.

I have a French friend whose skin is no worse than mine but who goes to a dermatologist who has told her the specific mix of French pharmacy products she should use. I also know two people for whom Creme de la mer has made their skin look spectacular- one in her thirties, one in her sixties. I got some as a birthday present I was so impressed only to find it does nothing for me. Another cousin has always taken great care of her skin, being laughed at by family for always buying the newest item in duty free and applying religiously, having regular facials etc. She's 45 and looks ten years younger and considerably younger than her sisters. So it obviously works for some people.

Women whose skin looks great on soap and water either use soap and water or use regimes they find enjoyable for other reasons. Those of us with skin which honestly looks unprofessional at times struggle with finding a way to deal with it. If there were more effective ways to figure out what suits you, I think most people would just stick with a regime: the main curse of the beauty industry for me isn't the products it's the difficult establishing what works effectively for what kind of skin.

I get irritated with the sales pitches around skincare. I'm very lucky to have great skin and only washes with water (soap very occasionally). I do moisturise as I've got dry skin but that's all I need.

However, when you talk to people in the industry they always tell me I should be doing extra. I'm nearly 50 and most people put me at late 30's so I'm clearly doing something right.
Some people need the products and some people don't. It's that simple, but I have never had somebody say that to me.
I do tend to wear a hat in the sun too.
As for the pseudoscience like the comment 'it doesn't contain any chemicals' which I had recently.

@Pineapplepower

Have you read that first article? Let me break it down for you:

1 There is an ‘intrinsic’ factor to skin ageing I.e the passage of time - nothing can stop this

1. Extrinsic factors to ageing include smoking, sun exposure, poor diet including nutritional deficiency
2. Low levels of vitamin C e.g in conditions like scurvy can cause premature skin ageing and have an effect on the skin

4 the treatment of above is increasing DIETARY vitamin C, and stopping smoking (as smoking depletes vitamin C) 5 adding vitamin C to skin cells reversed cell damage 6 THIS IS NOT THE CASE with topical application. Vitamin C has poor penetrant earth to skin cells as it requires a pH environment of less than 4, so various acidic chemical additives are put in these creams, with no clear proven effect

So, if you want good skin, don’t smoke and eat lots of fruit and veg.

Or spunk all your money on vitamin C containing creams for no proven effect.

HTh

@PinapplePower

2nd article, direct quote:

‘Clinical studies on the efficacy of topical formulations of vitamin C remain limited’

Did you even read the articles?!

There's little difference between the skin of old men and woman. I've never seen an old lady with young skin.

Nothing what you’ve quoted disproves what I stated. It’s all in the formulations.

In animal studies, application of 5% ascorbic acid two hours prior to UV exposure was found to reduce skin wrinkling.12 The photoprotective effects of vitamin C are also seen in human clinical studies. One double-blind, placebo-controlled study on 10 subjects using 10% topical vitamin C over a 12-week period showed a statistically significant reduction in photoaged scores and improvement in wrinkling in vitamin C-treated patients as compared to placebo.13 A significant improvement in furrows on skin histology and clinical appearance was seen in another double-blind, placebo-controlled study using 5% topical vitamin C on 20 subjects over a six-month period.

The CHALLENGE is formulations. A lot is worthless, especially those flogged by high-end beauty brands, but not all.

The optimal concentration of vitamin C depends on its formulation. In most cases, for a product to be of biological significance, it needs to have a vitamin C concentration higher than eight percent.4 Studies have shown that a concentration above 20 percent does not increase its biological significance and, conversely, might cause some irritation.4 Reputable products of vitamin C available today are, therefore, in the range of 10 to 20 percent

Also mentions ferulic acid as a stabilizer, as big problem is in storage/transport. Vitamin C serum can go bad if improperly handled.

And please don’t confuse this with creams/oil/etc. It’s a very specific type of product. You don’t have to buy anything more than vitamin C powder and aloe vera to make it yourself, either,

Also just want to mention that I’m in agreement with a lot that’s been said wrt big promises from Big Beauty, as I like to call it. But let’s not pretend that everything is worthless either. As stated, Vitamin C SERUM and Retin-A (tretinion is the active ingredient) are both powerful anti-agers and worth using.

More fringe are things like copper peptides and niacinamide (vitamin B3). Personally, I’ve found a lot of benefit with niacinamide in calming red irritated skin, but not a lot of good studies on it atm.

I'm very interested to see photographs of those who claim, "I'm 68, only wash with lard and a brillo pad and I often have police approaching me asking if I'm playing truant from school"

Most of the stuff from the big brands off the shelf in Boots etc is crap. I think we all know this now, its not news is it? Garnier, Simple, L'Oreal etc - they want to make money.

But when you learn to read labels, stop scratching the shite out of your skin when vicious physical exfoliators (St Ives I'm looking at you), and stop believing labels like 'natural' and coconut oil's apparent magical properties, you will see better results.

And no, anyone who claims that their skin is ammmazing and they only use soap and babywipes, actually it does show.

Ha! Well no, I am one of those who uses only mild soap, moisturiser and sunscreen and I definitely look my age; not that great with it. But I’d almost certainly look a fuck load worse if I messed about plastering various lotions and potions over my poor rosacea skin. Less is more for my skin. Even if I didn’t look worse with all the lotions and potions, it would need to be a significant transformation for me to be arsed to buy / do it 🤷‍♀️.

The best thing for my skin is antibiotics, (oral and topical). I can’t use them just now though as still feeding my youngest.

Used to be a dedicated follower of whatever concoction was on the market. But I think the best advice I’ve ever had was from a consultant dermatologist, whose skin at 40 was that of a six year old! Factor 50+ all year round. No amount of fancy creams and potions can reverse sun damage.
Low fat diet will dry out skin and make it scaly.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the stuff our own bodies produce (sebum) is probably the healthiest way to moisturise skin and constantly removing it can only be unhealthy. I used micella water to remove makeup and a cheap moisturiser if my skin feels tight.

I do think some skincare regime more than soap and water is good for you. However I've spent time is very hot countries with people who have limited access to any kind of skincare let alone creme de la me and I've really thought about what they're using - yet they aren't all walking around with wrinkles, dry skin, acne etc etc.

Prevention is the best medicine. I’ve lived in Asia for yonks; loads of women stay out of the sun and use SPF/sun parasols when out and about, protective gloves when driving or cycling. I’ve even seen some old Chinese ladies with a full helmet and sun visor along with big old gloves to ward off the sun.

But I’ve also been deep in rice paddy territory and those women definitely look their age, or even older. Like someone I’d guess is around 45-50 being just 30. It’s shocking what we actually look like when exposed to a hard life in the elements and loads of children. You realize it’s just a luxury after all ....

I used to curse my oily skin when young, but now I wonder has it protected me somewhat from ageing. My eldest son never had a zit or greasy hair but has deep lines around his eyes as does his dad. Middle son had awful spots on face, shoulders, but looks unlined. Just felt my skin now and can feel the oil around my nose after a couple of hours. I think genetics and staying out of the sun do play a huge part.

Use it if it makes you feel good, but don’t kid yourself you need to

So I'm just imagining it when I see my skin has improved a lot after changing from just soap and water to cleaning and moisturising with products....and so are the people who have said I look well and better? Okay....

Different products work for different people. If you find a routine that works for you, great - don’t bash other women for trying to find one that suits them. And - shocker! - often more expensive products will be better quality. Not always, but often.

I have incredibly dry and sensitive skin - all over, but particularly on my face. If I used soap on it I literally wouldn't be able to move my face. Instead I use a gentle cleanser, then avene moisturiser to stop the redness. I also use a good serum (shop around and try new things) and occasionally a face mask and exfoliate. I try to drink a lot of water, but I prefer coffee so that's not always successful and my moisturiser has an spf20. I like experimenting with new and different products because it's fun. I'm middle aged, have a few wrinkles, but not many as I'm overweight. Have loads of freckles and pale skin as I'm a Celt.

I don't care if some people choose to use soap and water and never wear make up. That's their choice. But I really wish they would stop judging those of us who like beauty products and finding us wanting (or not proper feminists or whatever).

I agree it's bullshit. I do use moisturiser after washing my face though as otherwise it feels a bit dry

@welshmist - have read in multiple places, I think, that oily skin tends to age better. Some anecdata from my side: I'm 32 and people tend to think I am about 25. I would attribute that mainly to my skin (and the acne has got a lot better generally in the past 4 years FWIW).

Choose (a) skincare brand(s) with a good ethos. Use as few different products as you can get away with. Cleanse very gently and thoroughly and protect morning and night. Your aim should be skin that is as healthy as possible, so think of your diet/sleep as part of your skincare routine.

You do have a point.
Many many high end moisturisers are just glycerin and water plus a bit of mineral oil.
Many contain vit a derivatives but in pointlessly low concentrations. And let’s be honest the retinoids are massively oversold. You have to be so careful when you use them because of the extra sun sensitivity it causes that you basically need to be inside with factor 50 on otherwise the sun damage will be worse.
I do really enjoy a nice skincare routine but I think the companies set people up to fail.
Use a mild cleanser they all say - yes when I did that I got acne and needed to treat that instead.

In my experience, yes YABU. But that’s because everybody is different, everybody’s skin is different, their hormones etc, and so are external environmental factors. So its a little bit condescending to suggest that any woman choosing to spend their time and money on anything more than soap and water are clueless sheep!

If I used nothing but water, or heaven forbid, plain old soap and water, I’d be a hot mess by 10am and you wouldn’t see my skin for the oil. My skin has always, always, always been this way. Since before I started wearing makeup and using fancy shit on my face. It’s just the way it is. I’m somewhat thankful as it keeps my skin looking youthful, but it’s also really fucking annoying! Throw in a dodgy thyroid and the glorious hormonal issues that go with that and it’s a regular shit show unless I use my trusty skincare!

I only use fragrance free soap and water on my face, never had a problem. Saves a fortune compared to some of my friends too!

If you like washing your face with soap and water from time to time, try this:
www.victoriasoap.com/products/lanolin-agg-tval-us-50-g/