To think there isn't enough guidance for formula feeding?

[GinPink]

I have three children. Dd1 bf for 7 months. DS2 bf 18 months. DS3 bf for 6 weeks and now ff. I've read a vague statement on the NHS website that as it's hot and he's formula fed he needs extra water but can't find any guidance any where on how much. My questions are

How much extra water
How often does he need water
Can I just water down his milk?

I get that they need to push breast feeding as 'breast is best' yada yada yada but I'm an intelligent woman, know all the stats and made a decision that bf was not working this time despite my best efforts and shy of going completely insane. I think there should be better guidance for formula feeding - after all the wonders of bf info.

Am I looking in the wrong place? Can any one help answer my qus? Many thanks!!

Aye I’d leave a wee gap between milk and water too. You’re right though, it would be nice if there was really explicit advice.

Stage 1 bottle teats are fine, my 9 month old still uses them!

All babies are different, so with bottle or breastfeeding there is general advice and after that it just depends on your individual baby.

Health visitors are there to give specific advice.

I think the advice re not watering down feeds is in case they don't finish the bottle as then they might not be getting enough nutrition even though they're filling their stomachs rather than a composition thing... so if he has the water on top of his usual feed can't see it causing any harm.

I do think up to date, evidence-based impartial advice is so important, however you're feeding your child. So much of what I learned about bf that was actually current and useful came from an online support group set up with the commitment that they would only give advice backed up by current evidence.

The difficulty I imagine for formula feeding mums is that so much of the research/evidence provided would be funded/assembled/disseminated by formula companies, who obviously can't be completely impartial as there is a profit motive at play (although one has to assume they would be motivated to give good safety advice as it does them no good if babies are getting sick en masse from formula).

What would be really good would be for some group of savvy, scientifically minded formula feeding mums to do some critical analysis of that evidence and try to weed out the good stuff, then put that information out there via a support group, as bf mums have done when the overstretched and outdated NHS support lets them down. Perhaps that is something you might be able to do once your baby is a bit older and you have more free time? Peer support is so important in infant feeding.

I don't think the advice can be more explicit, how could they cover every possible situation?
'Babies may need an oz or two of water between feeds in very hot weather'
Well baby 1 didn't need any water.
Baby 2 was at the beach all day and needed 2oz water between each feed
Baby 3 rejected water but had an extra milk feed
Baby 4 lives somewhere that didn't even get that hot yesterday

@Mindchilder that's great that your 9 month old is fine on stage 1. My friends DC wasn't and fed much better when she found out and switched teats.

urgent yes see that sorry

Sodding it will only cause harm if OPs baby doesn't finish bottles, guidelines are there as guidelines to be used along with a bit of common sense.

With the kind of baby who will happily drink endless amounts of milk its no different having the water in the bottle to having it after the bottle, there's not separate milk and water sections in the babies stomach!
If the baby struggles to feed enough, then no, adding water wouldn't be a good idea.

Rules have to be there because a lot of people have no common sense. There is also the issue of a baby not liking the taste of milk that's been watered down, or getting full before they've drunk the whole bottle.

@BounceAndClimb I’ve managed to raise 3 babies, I’m not stupid pissing about with guidelines for feeding small babies may be common sense to you, but it’s highly dangerous to start suggesting it online.

But hey, what’s a malnourished newborn between strangers eh? I mean, common sense clearly nullifies the need for medical advice.

Bert if the baby won't drink it then she can make a new bottle, or if the baby doesn't finish the bottle then she knows for the next feed that it doesn't work.

If the baby drinks the whole bottle with no issues then its no different to being given the (small amount of) water after, and a lot easier to keep the baby hydrated if its the type to refuse water alone.

OP try speaking to the GP over a telephone appointment if you're concerned about dehydration, our GP suggested giving DD extra water in her bottles to help with constipation when she changed to formula, they'll be better placed to give you individual advice based on your child.

Sodding the only way of the baby becoming malnourished is if the feeds aren't being finished, no one has suggested reducing the amounts of powder or carrying it on if the baby isn't finishing the bottles.
The majority of people on this site manage to raise babies, but well done.

I don't think he will need extra water if he is drinking enough mil BUT you can offer him very small amounts of cooled boiled water - don't let him drink too much at such a young age. Milk is more important.

please DO NOT water down his milk, ever. It can be very dangerous.

Surely adding an extra half oz or oz of water to a feed isn't an issue as long as they drink it all? They're still getting the same quantity of powder and just having the extra water out of the bottle rather than separately

Actually you did suggest watering down wasn’t harmful. Which is not only wrong, it’s potentially dangerous. The reason I mentioned my babies is your comment implied I was a novice, so I was refuting that.

Anyway, I’m done engaging with someone giving out stupid and potentially dangerous advice.

What's the 'actually you did' about? You've written that as if you're replying to my last post but its unrelated.

As I just said, its not harmful if the amount of powder isn't reduced and if the feeds are being finished.

The reason it could be harmful is if it reduced the amount of formula intake, but blinding saying 'its harmful' with no further information isn't helpful. As shown by the OP asking if extra water would mix in the babies stomach and contaminate the formula, stating things without giving information why is not helpful.

I've only ever read of a needing additional water if they are showing clear signs of dehydration or constipation.

Our daughter is constipated and at our antenatal appointment the GP recommended adding and an extra 30 ml of water to her formula.

I'm not so sure it's helping though and since she'll take plain water I'm going to switch to that vs adding it to her formula.

One more thing to add. Based on what a nurse told me yesterday I think the GP recommended adding the water to the formula vs giving her water by itself is because a lot of babies won't drink water alone.

I didn't know about different teat sizes until someone told me either

Ended up using variflow teats with both of mine as soon as possible when I found out.

The variflow will allow the milk to come out as fast as the baby wants it to

OP I’m going to leave the thread now, but given the differing advice you’ve had on here I’d advise calling your HV and asking for the best course of action.

Keep an eye on the soft spot on the head, if it dips that could be an indication of dehydration, and don’t be afraid to ask for a new HV if yours isn’t being fair or reasonable.

Sorry for lack of reply, mumsnet seemed to crash for a while? And we've been out and about. I think the differing opinions kind of proves I ANBU as it's so unclear - some better info would be helpful!

The reason I was thinking of giving water is because he seems hungry all the time and it suddenly dawned on me that maybe he's thirsty... today I gave him a few oz between feeds, he seemed to like it thanks again x