to wonder whether to teach my daughters to follow their instincts?

[Pacers]

I have two pre/early teen daughters who are starting to become more independent - going swimming, shopping and to the cinema with friends.

As I did with their older brother, I’m reinforcing the safety message: stay in a group, and get out of a situation quickly if it doesn’t feel right. Discretion being the greater part of valour and all that.

I’m wondering how I square this with the increasing likelihood that self ID will mean people who appear to be men will use facilities which have traditionally been female only?

Till now, an apparent chap in the ladies would have been assumed to be up to no good and I would have been in no doubt as to how to tell my daughters to respond. But as there isn’t any way of telling by appearance alone whether someone identifies as female and is therefore completely entitled to be there, or is a predatory male, it’s hard to know how to help my daughters balance respect for others and keeping themselves safe

(this arose from a discussion on FWR, but I wanted to get responses from a broader range of people as I

@FlyingElbows Good point. My mum used to make my then 10-year-old brother use the female changing rooms at a certain "slightly rough" swimming pool, she didn't feel safe with him using the men's. This was in about 1990.

Toilets aren't the safest of places anyway - how many school bullying scenes take place in toilets, and drunken men fighting in the men's? The schools less well enlightened about bullying would probably tell victims "keep away from places where they catch you, like the toilets.". And ironically in the film of "Porridge" in 1979, Ronnie Barker gives the following advice to a new inmate: "Don't hang around in the bogs for too long, not a safe place in the nick. You get all sorts in here:" and he starts listing them, I'm sure he mentions transvestites.

I absolutely hate the fact that my sons have to go into mens’ toilets alone, FlyingElbows. Because, as I’ve said each time I’ve posted, it’s predatory men I’m worried about, and till now is, that is where they’d have been with least scrutiny.

Since my sons aren’t actually female, though, regardless of my fears for them, using the ladies loo (or changing room, or whatever) isn’t an option, so I have to suck it up and teach them to be wary accordingly.

I’d say you tell your daughter to be wary in the same way you tell your sons to be then - your kids are too young to be in pubs and clubs where people congregate in the toilets and start chatting to randoms so the scope of normal behaviour in a public loo in the day is pretty limited. Anyone ‘lurking’ in a toilet is suspicious- male or female. I think the post about teaching your kids, especially daughters, not to be polite when uncomfortable is a good point.

I mean if there’s just ‘a man’ stood about in the women’s toilets not obviously engaged in the business of toileting himself or some children that’s suspicious whatever happens with self id. If self id happens that’ll be weird, in a unisex toilet that’d be wierd.

Teach your children, both male and female, to be aware of their surroundings, keep an eye on their bag/pockets, to defend their bodily autonomy and to be confident being rude to people who deliberately make them uncomfortable.

It’s fine to ignore a stranger
It’s fine to say no to anyone
It’s fine to be rude if you need to escape.
It’s fine to ask for help.