to not want to express milk in a room used for changing cathetas

[Fatas]

There alternative, suitable rooms available at my workplace. Was recently given a room to express, it is a large room, is secure and has a lockable door. There is a desk to sit at etc.

The room is used amongst other things for toileting; changing cathetas was mentioned, I am assuming it could be used for colostomy bags- but not sure on this one.

I really don't feel comfortable expressing for my little one in there, in fact I really feel it is inappropriate.

When I expressed concerns was told that the room was very clean and it was cleaned regularly.

A breastfeeding employee may ask for a private, hygienic, safe and secure area where she can express milk, this could be an unoccupied office or an area used for meetings that can be discreetly screened. If in doubt an employer should ask the employee what would be most appropriate.

This is from the ACAS guide. I can't see from the (unclear) explanation that you have given about this room that contravenes the guidelines.

If I were you I might take issue with scheduled times you can express as you may need to express outside of those times - unless they are stating that you are guaranteed exclusive use of the room at that time, in which case you can schedule expressing around that.

If you think it isn't hygienic then you need to clarify why you don't think it is; nothing you have written here suggests it isn't.

I was given an area that was very suitable which was replaced with an area that was unsuitable.

Please tell us the reason you were given as to why you were told to move rooms

@Sidge

Very selective cut and pasting there- you just needed to cut and paste the next two lines which you decided to miss out.

A private space

A breastfeeding employee may ask for a private, hygienic, safe and secure area where she can express milk, this could be an unoccupied office or an area used for meetings that can be discreetly screened. If in doubt an employer should ask the employee what would be most appropriate.
In any event it would be inappropriate to use toilets or sick rooms as there may be a hygiene risk. If, after careful consideration, an employer is physically unable to provide an appropriate space, they should discuss the issue with the employee to see if
there is any alternative facility.

Yeah because you haven't said it's a "sick room" and have stated clearly it's not a toilet. So not relevant.

Selective yourself

I don't think the guidelines need to be that specific. It is used for toileting so I believe it would fit that criteria.

Look you've obviously got an issue with the room they've allocated. Speak to them.

And ACAS guidelines are just that - guidelines. There is no law that says you have to have a specific allocated room to express.

More selective C&P from ACAS...

The law doesn’t require an employer to grant paid breaks from a job in order to breastfeed or to express milk for storage and later use. Neither does it require an employer to provide facilities to breastfeed or express milk, however see Frequently Asked Questions on page 9.

Is it the sluice, with a random desk in?

OP you really do sound like the entitled maternity returnee who gives everyone a bad name. You’re clearly just annoyed about being told not to use the “other room”. If I can see this then so will your employer. The room you’ve got sounds fine, and not “illegal” in any way (trade unions are rarely the best guide). If you really, hand on heart, are not comfortable then you need to take a step back and work with your employer in a positive way to find an alternative, but I’d suggest taking a bit of time to think this through and think about your approach first.

But you didn't see p9 though, did you?

Is it sex discrimination if I refuse extra breaks for breastfeeding?
A
A refusal to allow a breastfeeding employee to express milk or to adjust
her working conditions to enable her to continue to breastfeed may
amount to unlawful sex discrimination. However, if you have considered
the request objectively, discussed the issue with your employee and still
cannot allow extra breaks without there being an unacceptable impact
on your business then this would help explain your decision and would
be much less likely to constitute indirect sex discrimination (see Acas
guidance on the Equality Act 2010 at www.acas.org.uk/equality). Make
sure you consider a request for breastfeeding as you would for a
temporary change to working conditions from any employee for any
reason.

Yes- clearly I'm an entitled maternity returnee.

Who on earth do I think I am... expecting to be treated with dignity at work!

In fact why do these women who have babies/bring up the next generation of workers, think they can have their cake AND eat it.

You are being treated with dignity at work! How on earth is your dignity suffering?

Honestly, I think you’re trying harden to be offended here.

They're not refusing to allow you to feed or express though!!

They've given you access to a room which sounds, from what I can tell, absolutely suitable. Private, secure and with seating.

I still can't work out what exactly you are objecting to - is it because some people also use that room, at a different time, to carry out personal care? So what? What do you think the risk is to you? THAT'S what you need to be explicit about - perceived risk.

You ARE being treated with dignity, you have somewhere suitable to express, in private. You’re just snotty because you’ve had to move for whatever reason. In the nicest possible way, chill out and get on with it. Women have to express sitting on a toilet because there is literally nowhere else. Your situation seems preferable to that.

I’m sorry but I’m still confused as to how a room can be used to change catheters but is non clinical and not for self catheterising either? How is it used for toileting if there is no toilet? Surely any catheters drain into a bag which is disposed of hygienically? Urine is sterile anyway and I’ve not seen mention of colostomy bags so it shouldn’t be a problem really.

I understand you being upset at being asked to use a different room, if there is something more suitable available what is the reason you can’t use it?

FWIW I expressed on KIT days in a room used for veterinary procedures, just make sure that all your equipment is sterile.

You’ve got a baby, a job, and for the many reasons set out above what sounds like a perfectly adequate room to express in. You need to get over yourself. I say this as a working mother of 3 kids under 5 who breastfed and expressed for them all (not specifically relevant but I do have a massive amount of sympathy for mothers returning to work). But it’s clear that nothing is going to make you change your views at all so I’ll leave you to it.

Cannot understand why posters ask ,get answers then keep arguing that they are right?why bother?

What exactly is this 'toileting' you keep referring to OP?

@Magstermay- it just is.

People's cathetas are changed in there by other people. I have no idea where they then take the contents- I have not asked.

you are bloody hilarious op.

I wish you the best of luck dressing down your employer for asking you to express in a room that is a toilet without a toilet, in which clinical aspetic proceedures may or may not be carried out in which you pump your breast milk into a sealed bag in said germ ridden room. Im also really pleased that your pleased everybody disagrees with you! good luck with number 2

Its catheters...

Here we go with the “that mum” remarks. Just an attempt to gag people.

Nothing wrong with being THAT parent if you’re dealing that THAT teacher or school.

I completely agree, in fact, I'd prefer an actual toilet to a room where catheters and potentially colostomy bags are being dealt with. The fact that is regularly cleaned doesn't fill me with confidence, at my drs office my blood was spilt after taking a sample - the smeared around remnants were still there 3 weeks later. 🤢
Is there not just an office somewhere? I have to express in the managers office at work as it's the only place other than the toilet.

@Pippa12- thanks!

Luckily the law is on my side, even if mumsnetters aren't and my employer who is aware of the law will rightfully find me somewhere suitable

I agree Sprinkles. The “THAT MUM” comment is disgusting.