Gender instead of sex

[furandchandeliers]

I don't know how to explain why but I hate it when people say they're having a scan to find out the gender of the baby, and the other day I was asked by an 8 year old what gender my dog is!

I've even found myself crossing off the bit on forms that asks me my gender, and writing sex instead and then female.

Aibu to do this? Why does it annoy me so much? If I try and explain it to anyone I just get looked at like this

pbs.twimg.com/media/DaAWFzTX0AEIibu.jpg

I agree with Barbara, originally gender and sex did mean the same thing (according to my 1996 Oxford dictionary) but all the trans stuff has effectively altered the meaning of the word gender and now the two words are understood to mean different things (and I eyeroll every time I see gender used when the word sex is clearly more appropriate).

BlueBug45 Intersex is not a sex (there is no intersex gamete). It's also not a gender (what linguistic or psyc-social characteristics are applied?). Intersex people are female or male with a disorder of sexual development. As most intersex education and activist group say, shoving intersex people into some nebulous third sex is not accurate and erasing the sex we are is unhelpful (our medical treatment relies on our sex) and many of us find it offensive. You're essentially saying that my ovaries not developing typically means I somehow stopped being female during puberty (yes, not all of us are intersex at birth, some only show up due to development dysfunction during puberty, our sex along with our social and cultural experiences remain the same, it also affects doesn't always affect our gentials but often also affects things like our cardiovascular system).

Also, most diagnosis for intersex conditions has nothing to do with having our chromosomes or hormone levels looked at. The vast majority of intersex people have typical sex chromosomes, the disorder comes from a range of other issues with our genes (the adrenal glands being screwed up plays a big part in several, some can't process certain hormones, some of us just didn't grow our parts correctly). Most common diagnosis involves ultrasounds to look for missing or misdeveloped parts with blood checks being secondary. My hormone levels on diagnosis were within normal range, that didn't change my diagnosis, only the treatments.

There is absolutely no correlation or link between being intersex and being dysphoric and/or otherwise identifying with another gender. Intersex people are no more likely to be trans than someone without a DSD. That has been debunked so many times. Intersex groups do not want to be involved in the gender identity discussion, it kind of erases the issues intersex people are dealing with to be debate pawns for other people. Intersex is not a gender and asking for gender has absolutely nothing to do or for intersex people. Some intersex people do strongly identify with it, but that is no different to autistic people strongly identifying with being autistic and it doesn't make it a sex or a gender. It is a medical condition and a variant inclusive of our female/male sex, not separate from it.

Discussing gender and sex around here is massively triggering and usually results in a 900 post epic about trans issues. I can't say I give a shiny shit which one it says on a form, tbh.

I agree with Barbara, originally gender and sex did mean the same thing (according to my 1996 Oxford dictionary) but all the trans stuff has effectively altered the meaning of the word gender and now the two words are understood to mean different things (and I eyeroll every time I see gender used when the word sex is clearly more appropriate).

I think (it was a while ago I looked at this) it was feminists in the 70s who used the word in theory rather than the trans issues. In the 13th century it was used to mean a class of people sharing certain traits - and that could be taken either way. Joan Scott wrote an interesting paper 'Gender: A Useful Category of Historical Analysis' which explores its use. I think it is wise in the current climate to differentiate it from 'sex' and certainly I use it as a feminist, gender is something I reject.

Discussing gender and sex around here is massively triggering and usually results in a 900 post epic about trans issues. I can't say I give a shiny shit which one it says on a form, tbh.

Fair enough. I'm only quoting you to say I like your user name - it made me laugh.

Everyone I know uses the term gender instead of sex. Even my kids.

I correct them every time. :)

Sex and gender are not the same.

This must be repeated until the thinking-impaired get it.

YANBU at all.

I don't quite get why people are worked up about it. Please explain - because I genuinely want to know

Sex = biological (genitals, from when you are born. Foetuses, cats, birds and all people all have a sex)
Gender=social construct- how you choose to be seen (whether this matches the sex you were born or not. Gender is irrelevant for foetuses, dogs, cats etc)
So for questionnaires asking for gender - surely thats because the shape of your genitals (/original shape of your genitals) isn't relevent to that particular questionnaire/form's use. Ie- shopping preferences etc. Its more useful to know how you see yourself. Not for e.g. medical questionnaires where biological differences do matter.

To be honest i don't know why they ask half the time. It usually seems a bit irrelevant and not linked to what the purpose is.

I deal with data relating to people's sex at work, it really annoys me when people refer to it as data on gender and I always correct them. It does seem to becoming more prevalent.

It does seem to becoming more prevalent.

It is: I reckon its because the idea that what you feel you are, is more important than what you are, is becoming more prevalent.

If gender is how you wish to be seen then it's daft to have a scan to find out ' the gender' of your baby because no one knows what gender the baby will identify with. YANBU.

Sorry i should have added- yes on birth form its sex. It should be sex. Even if you feel very strongly about gender identity its still sex. (Apart from anything else, gender if self determined- and babies/foetuses/cats/dogs neither can decide that nor give a shit) YANBU

99% of people dont care

Im sure to engineers mass and weight are hugely different things but for general use no one really cares

but for general use no one really cares

And yet,....so many do..

No. Not many do

I always say gender too.
People get so easily offended over this too which bugs me.
Just go about your own lives! If your main worry is this with other people then I envy your lives.

i mean i do say sex myself, but when you book these scans with the professionals they do call them 'gender scans'...

Should read inaccuracies of course

Ketayuzu- the reason people get worked up about it is because it is not used correctly. The NHS form for my DD’s vaccinations asked for her gender NOT her sex. Sex is a protected characteristic so employers should be asking for sex not gender. If they used it appropriately noone would mind.

YADNBU. Gender is not a synonym for sex. I always cross out gender and replace it with sex on forms. However I find online forms don't offer an option.

Why would any organisation routinely categorize people by gender rather than by sex? Might as well break them down by musical taste or hair colour.

I spoke up at Wednesday's Equality Act meeting at Portcullis House (which was attended by some FWR regulars), dismayed by references by the panel to the "gender pay gap", pointing out that it's not a gender gap but a sex equality issue. Women are discriminated against on the basis of sex. You can't identify your way out of sexist prejudices .

It seems lots of people think gender is somehow a more polite word than sex.

I know the difference only relatively recently - really only since trans awareness became such a thing and I read up. I object to those not knowing being described as 'fucking ignorant' and 'thinking impaired' - the words are commonly used as synonyms as per the NHS example, it's not generally something many of us care about - and being so fucking obnoxious about it hardly makes most people want to find out.

If the BBC and NHS mess it up how are the 'thinking impaired' supposed to know? Must be lovely to be so informed and superior.

Katiepoes I wouldn't attack the intelligence of people who don't know the difference between sex and gender. I would point to local authorities, the NHS (ffs) and lots of large organizations who have substituted gender with sex, maybe in a misguided attempt to be inclusive. No wonder people get confused.

I cross it out on most forms, particularly if it looks like it's equalities related. And I pit a rmibser that sex is a protected characteristic I wouldn't do it for employment purposes as I reckon I wouldn't get a job. If I think they really want to know if I prefer pink to steam trains I've had to start ticking non binary. Which us farcical.