....to be fed up of many members of the public ignoring emergency situations?

[RebeccaBunchLawyer]

OK, I’m no hero tbh, or angel for that matter. Far from it. I’m actually a bit of a misanthrope and am hiding from my new flat mates as we speak (to avoid having to converse with them)..

But, the amount of times now that I’ve had to step in to help people when out and about now is ridiculous. I’m talking: a few elderly collapses, a few drinkers collapsing at bus stops etc, an elderly man nearly going under a bus etc etc.

I am not a nurse or particularly good at my first aid, and as I said I’m a real mean misanthrope, but I am always the only person to act when the shit hits the fan. Other people tend to stand their staring, gawping in a gormless fashion, doing nothing helpful, not even calling 999.

When the elderly man nearly enough went under the bus, I had to run (and I am a big lady!), scream for the bus to stop, then help the man, all while other people stared, eyes glazed. An army bloke did take over from me in the end (whilst I made the 999 call) as he knew more, but you get the gist.

Today, for example (slightly irrelevant but also not so), there was a road rage incident towards our bus driver. The bloke was effing away and the bus driver called out for one of us to call 999. I was the only person who did this; everyone else just stared or filmed it. Wtaf???!

Is this normal now- to ignore people needing help etc in everyday situations or are people scared to get involved? What if you needed help? I’m genuinely interested.

Thanks, NobodysChild, I was actually briefly at Law School before becoming a teacher. I often regret that decision (the career change) since I hated teaching in a school!

if you attempt first aid and get it wrong you could be sued
You say it was 3 years ago. The law changed in April 2015 to recognise the long-held common law principle that someone acting in good faith in an emergency situation should not be penalised for their actions.

The Social Action, Responsibility and Heroism Act 2015 asks the court to consider if you were 'acting heroically by intervening in an emergency to assist an individual in danger', your actions showed a 'predominantly responsible approach towards protecting the safety or other interests of others' and you were 'acting for the benefit of society or any of its members'.

So yes, you could be sued. But you would have to have been very irresponsible to have a realistic chance of this succeeding. Consequently anyone wishing to bring an action will be advised of this and are unlikely to proceed. You could be sued for any number of things. Balance that against the risk of death or life-changing injury.

It was unusual advice for St John to have given even before SARHA, definitely not consistent with their message when I trained with them, or trained people for them. I suspect the context could have been explaining why not to do things which would be grossly irresponsible.

I am a shit magnet
I can't even begin to count the number of crazy things I've been involved in. I never walk away, I always stop and help. I work in nhs but even before I did this stuff always happened. I've given first aid at funerals, on a night out, while shopping, car crashes (even when I was also a victim in a pile up) called more ambulances than most people in a lifetime.

I even pulled my car onto a traffic island and held up a main road to help a very determined elderly lady cross a busy junction because she was in danger if I hadn't. I couldn't even tell her what I was doing as I was going home sick with laryngitis and couldn't speak above a whisper.

I've found a guy collapsed in the street, called for help then found the exact same guy collapsed in a totally different place 3 weeks later and repeated.

I found someone having a seizure in a hospital car park with a head injury and despite being 200 yards from a and e no one else in sight!

I could go on and on and on. I think I just notice people and know when something is wrong.

No one has ever sued me

I think that some people freeze and you have to tell them what to do if you want help.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone did Sue for first aid one day. Doctors travelling on planes get given a letter telling them they're covered by insurance if the help in an onboard emergency (they only get the letter in that circumstance, not on boarding) because Drs were refusing to help as they were scared of getting sued. It's sad though. I don't think it would stop me, I couldn't stand there and do nothing.

Yes TarragonChicken I think you have explained it well there. Never the less, the perception still exists and I have done a first aid course. So I imagine a lot of people who have not done first aid are under this belief.

I thought the Vinnie Jones 'advert' avoided using rescue breaths because of the danger of a first aider getting it wrong and subsequently getting sued.

[[file:///C:/Users/Clive/Downloads/LegalStatusOfThoseWhoAttemptCPR-Sept2015-Archived.pdf The legal status of those
who attempt resuscitation]]

Trying to find any info to say you wont be sued but only finding advice that you MIGHT be sued if you attempt resuscitation. Can anyone point to anything legal that guarantees you wont be?

You are what is known, OP, as a shit magnet. I am too. DH now refuses to go to London with me as every time we go together something happens. On various occasions we have:

• called the police about a suspicious package and got a road cordoned off,

-answered a call in a tube station we were in for any police officers to make themselves known to staff (him) -answered a call in a tube station for anyone with medical training to make themselves known to staff (me) -witnessed a car knocking a cyclist over -arrested a shoplifter (him) -restrained an abusive and violent drunk until police arrived (him) -witnessed someone collapsing and started life support (both)

Bear in mind we’ve only been together five years and have probably only been up to London for the day together about 10 times .

The Vinnie Jones advert was aimed at getting people to do something rather than nothing. Chest compressions on their own are not as effective as CPR, but better than nothing, and people are reluctant to give rescue breaths to strangers.

I did my most recent first aid course a few months ago. I was told that rescue breaths are demphasised because it was putting people off from doing CPR, when compressions only CPR is still much better than no CPR at all! And then CPR with rescue breaths is better still.

Drowning victims are the exception, for fairly obvious reasons.

I've had 2 patients collapse in front of me at work and had to deal with several diabetic hypos

I had to help a woman who collapsed outside A&E - I was a couple of weeks off giving birth to DD , I sent her friend to get a porter while I'm thinking "She's on the floor so she can't fall and she's making noise so she's breathing"

I had a rescue a cat that leapt from a car and smacked its head off the bonnet of the car coming towards it

Re the legal status of those performing CPR, etc., in 2015, there was specific reform to provide additional protection: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/3/contents/enacted

To be honest I'd take the risk of being sued if it meant doing nothing would result in someone's death or suffering.

Surely any decent person would.

Society is sheepel once someone sees someone else helping they will go help
People rather stand and record people in embarrassing or life threatening situations rather than help them

Bystander effect. Some people have characters that have them just stand by and watch rather than react and respond.

I can't stand it either.

I did first aid training with the st johns and was told that you could only be sued if you were attempting something beyond your training and capability or something inappropriate for the situation. Eg a tracheotomy with a biro tube a la Casualty special episode or pulling out a shard of glass with a corkscrew or whatever. If you are performing cpr on somebody whose heart has stopped and break a rib, that is not something that could be sued for as the broken rib is a consequence of resuscitatiom without which they would be dead. (And cpr often breaks ribs even performed by medics in a hospital).
I've had to perform first aid twice in public, once when a man had a large piece of glass in his arm which was bleeding heavily. I used a few sanitary pads to absorb the blood and apply pressure around the wound while having him sit down with his arm elevated until ambo arrived. Other time was after a car crashed into the wall outside my neighbours when it was just a case of ringing 999 and getting necessary services and keeping people calm and warm until help arrived. Nothing major in either case but a lot of rubber necking went on!

A lot of people are not prepared and will be shocked out of action. I, personally, faint at any injury etc and so take myself away so people are not distracted from the injured if I have a seizure. I would of course call an ambulance but I may feel faint or dazed and be unable to.
If the issue is aggression or drunks then I avoid as I am very small and have been hit by drunks asking for help before and when people are aggressive towards bus drivers - well I live in London and the driver has a bullet proof screen but I do not have stab proof skin.

@LemonysSnicket

I think you are responding, you know something has happened and you are aware that you may collapse and make things worse, so you do the most helpful thing and get yourself somewhere safe for you and out of the way for others to help.

Agression and drunk yes also important to not have further injury.

I think for me it's more things like elderly person needing some help, someone falls or faints, calling 999 if it's needed, or is in danger, like when you see a toddler escape and run towards a road, with a parent chasing to stop them whilst trying to juggle other kids and bags.

www.holah.karoo.net/piliavinstudy.htm - this is an interesting read

This is a subject that is often discussed among first responders. Turns out that most of us are or were in that line of work because we go toward a problem instead of away from it. Fist bump of solidarity with another who sees a problem and assists in solving it.

In Thailand, where I live, there are an insane number of accidents and let’s say incidents. And people do run to get involved. I’ve witnessed many, and only on one occasion did people freeze, so I stepped in. Typically there are dozens of people running towards, not turning away, and that’s really an impressive sight. The local motorbike army is almost always there way before the police. The one thing which is super frustrating is that cars tend not to move out of the way when an ambulance needs to get through. This is really shocking to most people when they visit or move here. Case in point - last week I witnessed another moto crash and the guy didn’t make it. For th next half an hour I kept seeing rescue vehicles going by, still trying to get there, knowing it was too late. There are some signs of improvement but overall we still pray not ever to need to get to hospital fast.

Even in the USA first aiders and ither would be heros are protected under good sumnatiant laws which unless they do something completely stupid aka cutting an arm off because of a large piece of glass was in the arm you cannot be sued even if what you did caused a direct injury

I may be more alert to such incidents.

I'm an ex nurse and have ended up volunteering being stuck with being the first aider in almost all my non nursing workplaces AND voluntary roles too!

But yea, shock, bystander effect, fight flight & freeze. I think a lot of people think - someone else will step in or that they'll do something wrong. Sadly I also think (especially where I live and yes there are big drug and alcohol issues here) that what is actually a hypo/stroke/faint is someone drunk/high and they're either judgmental or fearful of getting involved (there has been incidents of well meaning people trying to help someone getting stabbed - inc with syringes which IS terrifying).

Training can have some effect but even with training some people still freeze or panic.

I've dealt with (outside of work) ...

Several asthma attacks
Allergy attacks inc anaphylaxis
1 suspected heart attack
Strokes
Hypos
A fellow student taking a SPECTACULAR tumble down EVERY step of a lecture theatre - fainted due to flu
A few fender benders

Burns and scalds - no of people I've had to say no you don't put butter, Vaseline, coconut oil straight on a burn 🙄 we seriously need good quality first aid psa's!

A motorcyclist hit by a speeding ARSE of a boy racer - wiped the biker right out - example of shock making people weird - his ankle was clearly broken, I think he busted his clavicle too - what does he bemoan? His ripped leather trousers, expensive he'd just bought them. This incident also provides a reason why people are reluctant to help, another person had rushed over to help him and tried to remove his helmet when there was blood around his neck and he'd clearly injured that area - big no-no! I actually screamed "no!" As I ran across the road and the guy helping caught himself and went "shit! I forgot" as I got nearer he said "thanks, I'm first aid trained but COMPLETELY forgot about not removing helmets with a suspected spinal injury"

I clearly need to work on resting bitch face too as I'm ALWAYS the person asked the time/directions/when does X shop shut - this has happened in places where I'm a visitor too and I haven't a clue - and they don't believe me!

I've also called 999 for fire and police for a few kitchen fires (neighbours headed straight for mine), dv, a robbery in progress (THAT was scary - I was in a phone box nearby, dark but not late in the days before mobiles when I was dating my ex and it was a ldr. Was -about to phone to him, next thing I know 4 guys breaking into a jewellers not 3 doors away! If I'd left the phone booth they'd have known I saw them. Turned my back to them, hood up, called 999. Police came, yanked me out the phone booth into a car. Arrested them. I don't mind admitting I was snotty crying and in a state! That was scary.

Helena

What a twat! Actually what a bunch of twats! some fucking footie fans Called police? Though it looks like he needed an ambulance after being a dick! Tempting to treat him sans anaesthesia - if he even needed any. Hope the driver was ok.

"In all of my 40-odd years, I've never encountered any kind of emergency." Really never? Never broken a bone or sprained an ankle or had a sibling do so? (Admittedly my 2 siblings were fucking bonkers so no wonder we spent I reckon the equivalent of at least 2 summer holidays on a&e's!)

Every incident has happened nowhere busier than a small town, though I've lived in 3 cities

On a thread a while back I admitted I'm calm in a crisis - then fall apart later. It's a weird thing. Like you go on pause!

I think me op and others must be getting other people's bloody shares of trauma witnessing

Anyone is welcome to try suing me! I ain't got a pot to piss in!

Yes risk assessment - inc risk to yourself is also important. Can't help anyone if get hit by a car running to someone else's aid eh?

Going to be honest, I am a bit of a head in the clouds person, I pay enough attention walking down the street to not get run over or hit lamp posts but have been guilty of simply not registering something going on near me.