Who is right? 52 yr old v 16 yr old daughter

[Jazjoke]

Can you lovely people help?

My 16 yr old daughter has recently finished her gcse's and loves art as well as being academic

She draws in a modern style and is interested in gender neutral, same sex, modern styles/ tattoos

I have suggested that she set up an Etsy shop having some of her art printed on greeting cards as there seems to be a real gap in the market

She has a lack of belief anybody would purchase

I have merged some quick snaps taken on phone ( so not best quality) so you can see

A quick opinion would be much appreciated

I would love her to follow her dreams, but if I am way off happy to be told and will direct her to more traditional sat job ( she will be doing Alevels in Sept)

Any opinions welcome - thanks

I agree with going the Instagram route rather than etsy.

I also recommend reddit as a great place for advice/critique from other artists, there are many great subreddits for art and drawing. She might find it fun to visit r/drawme , where people post photos of themselves for others to draw! All sorts of experience levels there.

User
That's why I wasn't offended by your post
She is v much her own person and I'm certainly not one of those mums ,I work in a education and see those every day !
I have been accused by School as having a lack of ambition for her, as happy for her to choose Art when they were pushing triple science option choices
She is supported by several hospitals who all tell me how well balanced she is and how week she copes
She may do really well in GCSEs, she may do art, I really don't care as long as she continues to be the unique happy girl who has opinions and a place in life

Really not my thing so i would say i see talent but art is in the eye of the beholder.

I think she is better off developing it and looking at a career with seeing it on the side when she feels confident. I have seen a friend, a good writer, pushed too early and now she really dislikes her own work.

Sorry, i wouldn't see it

I do really like ThatchersColds dd pictures though, massive talent. So art is subjective.

It’ll be pocket money at first, she’d still be better getting a saturday job if she wants extra cash. At that age she should be spending her time honing her craft and playing and exploring as much as she can, because if she does go down the commission route she’ll rapidly find less time to really spend time refining her skills. She could also join local art groups, although they are very much geared towards the retired, it’s a chance to exhibit and attend demos and again, experiment with styles. Most groups are welcoming.
Bear in mind that once you start selling and exhibiting people do associate you with your initial style - if that’s not what she wants, if she wants to develop more first it’s better to spend the time getting her style where she wants it and how she wants to be known, first.

Etsy is a time suck unless and does cost to advertise and list. She’d be better off making local connections with other artists, galleries and publications (if she decides to go into illustration, which seems to be more her style).
I’ve been an amateur artist for a long long time, I started at 13 (exhibiting and selling) so it is possible but I also really value the times I’ve spent not exhibiting and being able to play with style and medium. I also feel lucky to do it for fun, I’m not pressured to earn from it, everything I earn is a bonus (I also have a full time job). There’s lots of awards and grants for young people to take art further. Where are you based? PM me if you want, I can be more specific about area grants and groups etc.

Doing it for the love first is always valuable, I think.

Sorry also meant to add, she could sell her cards to local galleries and shops to sell on. Might be a better way of getting known locally (potentially getting commissions too) and also more profit, less of a time suck than trying to advertise on etsy.
I sell through shows and make a decent profit on my cards, I also sell originals and prints, but etsy take commission as well as the listing fee. Obv galleries and groups do take a cut if she was going to participate that way (but it’s still better because it’s local).

My daughter ( 20s) bought a drawing from Etsy for a friend’s birthday - £25, so it does happen.

The modern art world is a funny old business, with an emphasis on the word business. I go to a lot of contemporary exhibitions, and enjoy attending with a like minded friend with whom I can critique. Sometimes we are blown away and stand there know how they did it technically but also knowing we could never achieve it in a million years because we wouldn’t have had the instinct or the originality and other times we ponder why something of little apparent merit is £50,000 then see the name and it becomes clearer 😒

I had an illuminating conversation with a friend’s artist daughter about how the current system of galleries, patrons and collectors works - difficult to make a living out of painting ( outside the niche of commissioned portraits, and even then ) without learning the game. She is still hanging on, though being subsidised by her parents - for now.

She should create a Facebook page and post her stuff on it, gain a little following and see how it goes in a few months. Can also easily set up a sale/shop section it in. Totally free, very easy and not a business - just an individual selling items so no "red tape" to conquer. If she networks with other pages around issues/topics she focuses on, she'll build a community fairly quickly.

I bought a personalised picture from an artist off Etsy a while back. The way she worked was you send a pic of your family/yourself, a couple etc and she painted you stylistically not super dissimilar to what you’ve shared here. I can imagine her getting some commissions like this! The girl who painted ours was in America and most definitely was a similar situation, young artist earning a little bit. She charged about £25 for a watercolour which came to me rolled up in a tube. Probably doesn’t take long for her but nice little earner if the style is something people would frame and put up!

Just going back to @Aeroflotgirl's comment re 'art is subjective'. Well yes, at one level of course it is. Some artists are some people's cup of tea more than others. I'm not a big Emin fan either. But that doesn't mean that every piece of art is equal to every other, and that artistic skill is irrelevant. To say that Warhol is simplistic and lacking in skill just betrays a lack of knowledge and understanding of art - I'm reminded of people who look at modern art and say 'pah, I could have done that'. They really couldn't, it is a total delusion. I know how to screen print, technically speaking. But I will never in a million years come out with an Andy Warhol, because (alas) I'm not one of the seminal artists of the 20th century and I haven't invented a whole new visual language. (Give me time...) That's why some of the people who teach art on this thread can look at a piece and say 'yes, that's recognisable as GCSE art.' And why on the whole (with perhaps some exceptions :) ), art school tutors don't come to blows over what grade to award a student. You can assess skill, the value of an artistic concept and the artistic journey, regardless of whether you'd actually like the final piece on your wall.

It's the same with writing. I might not like Charles Dickens, but there's not really any arguing about the fact that the bloke could write. My aunty Mary who self-published her long, tedious and badly-written novel about the tudor kings might well get some people who prefer it to Dickens because they really like tudor kings, but you wouldn't say 'ah but it's all subjective isn't it.' At one level, nope, it isn't really.

Very well put @frogsoup

I say it's GCSE art. I have several friends who are amazing artists, and they sell their art, work in the creative world as a side line to their main jobs. There isn't a lot of money in it for the time. Even a lot of their commission work, once you break down the hours isn't a lot.

But if she keeps at it, she'll home in on her style and perfect it.

I like them, and she seems to have developed her own style. I think there is some talent there. I don't know the first thing about Etsy, but trying to make a career from painting is virtually an impossibility unless you have little reason to make money.

I got 98.5% in my GCSE in 89, and like your daughter I was talented, however the A level is a huge step up, it's very prescriptive compared to GCSE and it's a difficult transition. It completely deprived me of my enthusiasm. Plus A level study is so all consuming, my son now does not have time for a part time job and up to this point he has had to always put in minimum effort throughout school. So, try to be realistic, and I'm sure then she will do very well.

Hi op my dd has just finished her A level art and got A* yes proud mummy.

Her work is similar to your dds. She has her own web site and has sold a few pics that way abd has also been asked to present at various galleries.

She’s doing a fine art degree st uni this sept. I would let your dd follow her dreams. Don’t let school direct her. So what if she doesn’t make a fortune. She can always do it part time along with an other career.

Frogsoup

Your post made me laugh it’s so true and I like the sound of your aunty Mary. Is she really real?

I doubt many of the posters here are qualified to judge an artist's talent.

Why not put the question a different way: would YOU buy this? And how much would you pay for it?

For me it would be a 'no' as it doesn't make me feel anything. Nothing to do with whether she's good at drawing or has talent.

Well I wouldn't buy it but I wouldn't buy a denim thong either and yet those seem to be a viable business. No harm in her trying surely?

Thanks for all your messages - so interesting to hear other people's experiences and some great advice given
She will do whatever she wants - more than happy with that ...as said earlier the Etsy comment was simply a throw away comment about something to do in hols ( realise now not best Mum advice) and asked for advice
No big plan for her, it's up to her to find a path
Her health dictates everything - so we have never been able to make plans, so just surround her with info/ options she can pick up / explore when feeling ok
She's 16 so she will prob do this herself from now on

Think post has got muddled with people thinking I was pushing her into business or do art - absolutely the last thing she needs is pressure - it was more is this something worth exploring?
I'm more than happy for her to continue just enjoying if for arts sake
She's 16, she may hate it after A level, especially if it's v prescriptive ( she's not a prescriptive kind of girl!)
I will collate the info / advice and give to her
Again she's 16, it may sit on her floordrobe or she may follow some leads
Either way those offering advice have suggested and offered advice way out of my knowledge - to those who contributed... many many thanks

@CloudIllusions
Think I should have worded it
' Is Etsy a good idea for a 16 yr just finished GCSE's to upload some art during summer holidays?
Or ' Is there a better way for her to explore her interest in art over the hols?'
Or ' Is there a way a Yr 12 student can dabble in selling her work while studying, as pocket money NOT a business'

Life a learning curve

@Ohmydayslove alas she isn't real, but I wish she were .

There are loads of talented artists out there. The successful ones have to market themselves. Why not try that now and hone her business skills? If you treat it as a project rather than a money making activity, it will give her experience and you never know, could develop into something more lucrative.

Thinking from a slightly different perspective ...

My father was talented as an artist and potter, and taught both at various levels. He produced quite a bit of work in his spare time, but never wanted to sell any.

It was nothing to do with whether people would like it or not, or whether he could make money - he just preferred that the desire to be creative was not stifled by having to meet someone else's expectations or assumptions of what was art and what wasn't, or produce things to order.

I guess what I am saying is that just because someone has a talent, they don't necessarily want it to be judged by others, regardless of how good they might be.

Over the years I've known people, have a nephew and currently have a couple of friends who are artists.

The ones who are artists full-time are now retired so have time to spend on their artwork including getting commissions and exhibiting their work. The majority of the others followed paths and found careers in graphics, design or the computer games industry where they can use their art skills but earn a decent living from it. I also have known others who have completely different careers in dentistry and computing who spend a lot of their free time producing artwork and every few years exhibit it at a local event.

The only people I known and have met who have done art degrees like fine art at a young age have had to do menial jobs so they can afford to work on their art. There is a bloke with a studio on my road who does this but he's not the only one I've met.

I'm only mentioning this as once I met up with a friend who decided he needed a hair cut. He went into a barbers and I followed him in. We started chatting to the barber and discovered he had a fine art degree. (This actually started me finding out what qualifications and life experience younger looking retail, bank, etc staff have.)

I am no judge of art, but one of my SDs is quite good (just finished A level) and when she produces something that she feels is particularly strong she uploads it on RedBubble. It's a site where people can order stickers, cards, t shirts, mugs etc by different artists.
The site makes and sends out the products and the artist gets a small commission.
I wouldn't say my SD's work is significantly better than your DDs, but by picking a few of her favourite pieces (not all are suitable) she has made a few hundred pounds over the last 2 years. It's been a nice boost for her confidence, even though she has no plans to become an artist. At any one time she has maybe 4 different designs up. Most importantly it is less effort and outlay than an etsy shop and you can carry on making the art you love without having to make it commercially desirable: just use the pieces you particularly like.