That fasting is making diabetes seem a ‘fixable’ chronic disease

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All these ‘fast fixes’ ie. eat 800 calories a day for 8 weeks and you can ‘reverse’ Type 2 diabetes make it seem a more benign/controllable disease? I’m a classic yo-yo dieter - skinny till my 20s then ‘naturally’ a BMI of 25-30, pregnancy weight etc.

I am seduced by the fact I can reverse this disease (have had the ‘you are pre-diabetic’ talk from the Dr) and it sometimes makes me complacent. Anyone know what I mean?

I think it’s great you can starve yourself out of the danger zone and I’ve done 8 weeks and lost 2 stones at least 3 times but I always revert back again and never lose that appetite for all those foods that are bad for me (bread, potatoes, pasta etc...)

AIBU In feeling a bit cynical?

You can reverse type 2 diabetes. If fasting doesn't work for you try going whole food plant base , it is a vegan diet without the processed food.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19386029
You won't need to starve yourself anymore, And it is not only the carbs, but also the high fats .
Here is another study as well www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466941/ and if you care for your health you can use PUBMED to read hundreds more of studies on that.

I know a doctor who has also much improved his type 1 diabetes, he went low carb and needs hardly any insulin now.

One of my friends is a doctor who specialises in diabetes. She says that 70% of diabetes patients would be symptom free if they lost weight and were sensible about their diet.

For those who don't know Type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune disorder where not enough insulin is produced in the pancreas, treatment involves lifelong insulin therapy. Type 2 diabetes is a lifestyle disease caused by insulin resistance,ie the insulin produced can't deal with the carbohydrate intake. Type 2 can be treated by diet, tablets and insulin and it can be reversed.

Type 1 Diabetes cannot be reversed, however it can be improved with diet. I have to do the school tun now, but will come back to put the links

Type 2 diabetes might not be benign but it is controllable with diet and it can be reversed.

My grandma developed type 2 diabetes in her late eighties. She’d been 2-3 stone overweight since her forties.

It absolutely terrified her and she she was pretty ruthless in her diet after that.

Her approach was based on what my grandad used to do when he wanted to drop some weight when he was a boxer when he was young (and they were courting). He just used to say “cut what you eat by half”.

So between portion control and swaps she halved her caloric intake. Permanently.

So no more frying or sautéing. No oven chips or breaded foods.
Breakfast became high fibre cereal and skimmed milk, with half a grapefruit. She would have bacon and eggs at the weekend, but one egg, one rasher of bacon and cooked in the microwave so no extra oil.

Lunch went from being soup and a sandwich to being soup and one piece of toast made from light bread (and it was now always homemade broth- chicken stock, carrots, onions celery and a very small amount of pulses and barley, no cream of mushroom or anything hearty).

Dinner was always a small portion of meat or fish, a small potato (boiled) and made into potato salad using yoghurt not mayonnaise and two portions of vegetables.

She stopped keeping sweets or nice biscuits in the house (she quite one packet of plain biscuits she didn’t really like in a slightly open Tupperware so they went soft and weren’t tempting, but she had something quick if she was desperate).

Whilst she was losing weight she ate no snacks whatsoever. She lost 4 stone in a few months. Once she’s lost the weight, and reversed the diabetes, she kept light crisps and light choc ices in the house, and allowed herself to eat a small cake or baked good (e.g. scotch pancake once a week).

She limited herself to one coffee a day and three cups of tea with a splash of skimmed milk.

Once a week she’d go to my aunty’s for a meal and eat much more calorific foods and pudding, but she started asking for a half portion.

It took an iron will, but she lost the weight and kept it off. She lost another 3/4 of a stone in her mid nineties when she stopped going out on her own and her appetite just fell away.

She lived to just shy of 101, living independently in her own home with no more assistance than getting her shopping delivered and insisting medical professionals (doctor, chiropodist) came to see her on the infrequent occasion she needed to see them.

Im a bit like you. On or off a diet. Mine is due to health though as I’m chronically ill and there is a tipping point, where I cannot eat how I wish and then I can’t think about my diet properly at all. The people who succeed are those, who see it as a lifestyle. My ideal would be LCHF 16/8. This regime also reverses type 2. Fasting is also great. It increases your insulin resistance.

My dp was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes a couple of years ago. He went on a strict diet, lost a few stone and reversed the diabetes. He's kept the weight off and the diabetes has stayed away.

I too was pre diabetic a year or more ago. Did the 8WBSD and had huge success. HbA1C followup brilliant. Cholesterol down and lost 2 1/2 stone. I felt great. I fell off the wagon a bit put back on some weight and allowed sugar to creep back in (very stressful event happening in family). I could feel the diabetic symptoms creeping back. Drinking loads, swelling, tiredness etc. I'm now back on the diet, or woe and feel great again. Skin looks good, belly not swollen, feet not swollen and full of energy.

I don't believe the diet "reverses" diabetes. I believe it controls it very well. If you return to your old ways, very quickly you are diabetic again or prediabetic. Stick with the woe, allow small treats on occasion.

I understand what you're saying @OP I'm in the same boat!
But just because we can't manage it is quite unreasonable and irresponsible to suggest that it being manageable or reversible by diet is a myth!
It's absolutely 'curable'

Fascinating thread. I've been on and off diets since I was a teenager - long ago. I've gained weight recently because of stress and comfort eating and I need to get it under control.

I don't agree that bread, potatoes and pasta are "bad foods" though. My mum (late eighties) eats all of them and she is struggling to put on weight. I don't want to trigger anyone by saying what she actually weighs now, but she has never been overweight and lost weight after a recent operation, so she is now very underweight - despite mashed potatoes being her favourite food. She's just got a bird-like appetite now. She's very healthy and sprightly for her age though and looks years younger.

I love the story about your grandma LapsedHumanist. Such willpower!

OP Type 2 diabetes is a fixable disease.

But the idea that all it takes is "a bit of fasting" is the problem here, not the idea that it is fixable.

Lifestyle changes are notoriously difficult. "A bit of fasting" is not what it takes. Permanent changes to diet are what are needed. It's the quick fix that is the lie here, not the fix itself.

My dad was borderline type 2. He cut out sugar and reduced portion sizes, and is now we'll out of the woods. It's completely within your control, and the doctor would prefer you to eat well constantly, and for life, not fast. Cut only refined sugar and you will probably get it under control.

Yep, sugar and portion sizes are what I need to control.

What utter tosh! Diabetes (both types) runs in my family. Type 1 is INCURABLE currently, as it is an autoimmune disease. To suggest that diet can cure it is both irresponsible and dangerous.

No-one knows why Type 2 occurs, only that being overweight can trigger it if you have certain genes. Essentially, it is the inability to make energy from carbs. due to your body not being able to convert glucose to energy i.e. Insulin resistance. Some small scale tests have demonstrated that a VLC diet can reverse type 2 in some people, provided they then keep their weight low and reduce their carb. intake permanently. However, it doesn't work for everyone, as not all type 2 people are overweight e.g. my athletic brother.

There is also no evidence that a plant based diet is any better for diabetics than a meat based one. What IS certain, is that reducing your carb. intake is helpful for managing it, especially 'simple' carbs like white bread, pasta and sugar.

Finally, excess Insulin makes you fat. Insulin is a fundamental element in the the process of converting carbs. to energy. Type 1s often have excess insulin due to having to inject it. Type 2s often have an excess due to their pancreas making more to overcome insulin resistance or, when their pancreas gives up, having to also inject it. This means that a diabetic will find it increasingly difficult to lose weight successfully.

So, please, please stop talking about 'reversing diabetes' . It creates the impression that diabetes isn't a serious disease - which it is. And that it is easily curable with a bit of will-power - which it isn't.

My db lost 14 stone in a year, revere seed his type 2 and literally changed his life 5 years ago. He sometimes goes on a bit of a ‘eat what I want’ for a week on holiday or whatever but he is determined never to regain the weight. It’s iron will power - he has young dc and was worried he’d miss the them growing up.

Jaxhog so how do you explain that my dB did it - was diagnosed with diabetes type 2 and got on a clinical trail diet and it reveresed - he has no treatment at all now.

My doctor friend didn't say that losing weight cured diabetes, just that it would make you symptom free. So, not exactly the same thing.

I am planning to do a diet like this (not quite so strict though). Will let you know if it works! :)

Only some types of types 2 diabetes can be reversed. There are many variants; diabetes isn’t one disease but many. For example the variants most commonly found Asia don’t respond to fasting.

I think the issue is the belief that it is a lifestyle disease - there are elements of lifestyle that exacerbate it - like weight, but fundamentally its a flaw in how your body works, it can be put into remission may be a better way of putting it - it doesn't go away you are just controlling it.

I actually believe it is still autoimmune in some way, for all it is so prevalent we really do not understand it, especially linked with other issues to do with the endocrine system.

For now we can control via diet for most type 2's but when you can trace family history and connect it with certain other conditions, it is not just about lifestyle

If you are able to fast and lose weight then why not just do it now and on a more regular basis and maintain a healthy weight to avoid getting diabetes? There are many other health conditions associated with being overweight. I can’t understand why anyone would take the risk out of choice.

Additionally, even if you were to be diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and then reverse it you would still be using up several GP and nurse appointments to get your diagnosis, have testing etc.

YABU! Yes for some pre-diabetic/newly diagnosed type 2s fasting can reverse the process and bring blood sugar back to a normal range.

For those with established type 2 diabetes (who are on oral medications or insulin), fasting will not reverse their diabetes. The process of the disease means that over time both the amount of insulin produced by the pancreas and the body’s sensitivity to that insulin decline.

It Is potentially dangerous for type 2 diabetics on insulin or certain oral meds to fast as this makes them high risk for hypoglycaemia (which can be fatal).

My daughter is type 1 and her consultant said that although fasting and/or low carb diets reduce insulin consumption and blood sugars, there are concerns that they may hasten the onset of diabetic kidney damage due to the higher protein content (there is research ongoing re this at the moment)

My dh has type 2 but wont fast. Says fuck that. He's lost a stone so far but has a long way to go and its moving slowly