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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this isn’t nepotism?

284 replies

Abergatwenty · 19/06/2018 18:36

I work for the IT department of a solicitors firm in a large town. We are currently switching from one IT system to another - this means that we’re having to manually transfer a lot of data from the old system to the new.

To help us do this, we have eight 18-21 year olds (including my daughter) working for us for 2 weeks to do the transferring. They are all the children of various people who work for the firm - I just sent out an email asking if anyone had any uni student children home for the holidays who wanted a bit of summer work. We’re paying them minimum wage.

This afternoon in town I bumped into the mother of a girl who my daughter was at school with. She asked what my daughter was up to and I told her she was working at the solicitors with me for a couple of weeks. This mother got very angry about this and thought it wasn’t outrageous that we hadn’t “properly advertised” the jobs so that anyone could apply and had just asked our own kids.

AIBU? The work is time consuming but completely unskilled - we didn’t need to waste time shifting through CVs and A level results to find the most academic people. The only quality required is that we can trust them - we all trust our kids, and we don’t have time to conduct interviews.

Plus, given the number of applications that would come flooding in for anything that even resembles ‘legal work experience’, assessing each applicant and selecting 8 people would have probably taken longer than the actual data transfer job!

And it’s not like the work is going to lead to full time positions - it’s just a 2 weeks, unskilled, minimum wage summer job.

OP posts:
RoseWhiteTips · 20/06/2018 18:16

Riiiiight. Jolly good.🤣

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 20/06/2018 18:17

None of us are averse to a bit of good old nepotism, DrDo.
But some people seem almost afraid to admit that that’s what it is, for some reason.

DrDoMore · 20/06/2018 18:20

Meh, course it is 🤷🏻‍♀️

MaisyPops · 20/06/2018 18:27

Yes it's nepotism.

But then equally I can think of students past and present who:
Worked at a relative's stables for their weekend job (minum wage, mucking out etc)
Got y10 work experience in a specialist wing of a hospital - parent worked there
Left school at 16, got a reasonable paying job at uncle's building firm and did their NVQ/City and Guilds through the local college (they'd have been paid £3 an hour if they went for a typical apprenticeship but uncle decided if they're doing the job, they'll pay the proper rate)
Saturday shifts in a family friend's hairdressers
Work experience in an architect firm over the holidays from uni
I've put words in for family and friends when they're seeking work experience

Whilst it'll never be ok for a mediocre or poor candidate to gain jobs or promotion because of who they know (that's the sort of nepotism where people know the score and think you're a prick), knowing people does help in life.

MrsDesireeCarthorse · 20/06/2018 18:28

I am working damn hard to get my kids extra advantages, why on earth would I bother working otherwise! Choosing our current house to put them in our chosen school was the first step! That's what every single parent does! (or decent parents anyway).

This is awful. The sheer arrogance of this!

MANY DECENT PARENTS CANNOT AFFORD TO DO THIS.

capice?

DrDoMore · 20/06/2018 18:30

What, so we should all refrain from doing so to level the playing field?

Isn’t that just what they call “a race to the bottom”?

DiegoMadonna · 20/06/2018 18:32

So a ten year old wearing a crop top and mini skirt is 'asking for it'?

No, but you should refrain from implying that people who don't (or can't) do it are not decent parents.

DiegoMadonna · 20/06/2018 18:32

What, so we should all refrain from doing so to level the playing field?

oops, meant to paste this quote

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 20/06/2018 18:34

Of course not, it’s what makes the world go round. But just call it what it is.
Some posters are almost comical in their desperation to convince themselves that it isn’t, while happily doing that very thing.

ThePeasantsAreAtTheGates · 20/06/2018 18:35

Well yes by definition it is nepotism, but it's entirely understandable and the best practical solution. My daughter works in our business during her summer break - nobody has every challenged us about it.

Dorsetdays · 20/06/2018 18:36

Diego. I think you might have misread the post as I don’t believe that’s what was said. Moving house was given as an example. The reference to decent parents was about working hard to give your children the best advantages you can.

Nothing wrong in that

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 20/06/2018 18:36

I didn’t hear that implication at all, Diego? That’s a little bit sensitive of you, I think.

Loopytiles · 20/06/2018 18:37

Nepotism, and any paid work looks better on a CV than none. Understandable that the firm wants to recruit faster, save money and increase the likelihood of temporary workers turning up - since their permanent employees won’t want to be shown up. Rather than other options, eg free ad at local colleges or universities.

MaisyPops · 20/06/2018 18:38

What, so we should all refrain from doing so to level the playing field?
I think the main issue with your post is the idea that 'decent' parents...

There are many decent parents who lack the funds to do what you've managed to do. They aren't crap parents for it. They do their best in other ways and probably aren't so smug and judgemental as you are being from your lofty position of privilege.

DiegoMadonna · 20/06/2018 18:39

Choosing our current house to put them in our chosen school was the first step! That's what every single parent does! (or decent parents anyway)

It's a pretty clear implication.

DrDoMore · 20/06/2018 18:40

It wasn’t my post. I didn’t say anything about decent parents.

The poster has explained herself anyway.

Graphista · 20/06/2018 18:41

I notice most of those saying 'it isn't that bad' are ALSO saying they would - and can! - do similar for their DC.

If it's so ok that it provides an INSIGNIFICANT amount of advantage, why so keen to provide your DC the same advantage.

As a few pps have said, it's not quite so much the odd occasion of these DC gaining advantage, but as in the cartoon linked (which I love and have used myself to illustrate similar points) it's the CUMULATIVE effect - and then the PRIVILEGED child doesn't even ACKNOWLEDGE their privilege, let alone feel grateful for it.

It starts from genetic advantage (not everyone has good health, or the intellect to do well academically , personally I feel uk as a country puts too much weight on academic achievement and not enough on other skills and abilities - and I say that as someone who has done well academically), to what family you're born into, where you're born, when, up to and including how able your parents are to support you/provide you with advantages other DC don't have.

There aren't enough jobs to go around just now, of any kind, so to be able to get work experience - and PAID work experience at that IS a huge advantage at the moment. I also agree posters comparing this to work experience shelf stacking or cleaning ARE being disingenuous in thinking this wouldn't be seen as 'better' by most employers.

Locally, there's a real problem with council jobs very rarely going to people without a personal, usually family, connection within the council. Just going into the local customer facing offices there's a lot of employees with same surname who look a lot alike. I'm not local but know locals and it's often complained about. Particularly when it comes to the coveted school hours only jobs.

Every advantage makes a difference. I understand parents giving their kids the advantage - doesn't make it right.

Op - it absolutely is nepotism and honestly I think you knew this when you posted, you're clearly an educated, intelligent person. No way you didn't know this. Which frankly begs the question - why post?

The woman who challenged you, I agree did neither herself nor her child any favours pissing you off, but I also understand why she was pissed off. In all likelihood under the current climate and depending on where you are, ANY office based experience can be a huge advantage. It doesn't have to be law, for some DC ANY office based position is a step up from what experience/jobs they're likely to get WITHOUT that advantage.

No there was no need to do a huge campaign for the jobs, but there's also no reason why your firm couldn't have discreetly contacted the local 6th form/college for suitable candidates.

It IS giving your child and the other children an unfair advantage I find it very hard to believe you didn't know this. That you don't recognise or acknowledge this speaks to how oblivious you are to

A how lucky your family is

B how tough other families are having it.

I come from a wc family who mainly had manual jobs, shelf stacking, cleaning type jobs. That my generation within the family have mainly had office based jobs is seen as a huge step up. Myself and my cousin having degrees is looked on with a weird mix of awe and discomfort because the generation above didn't even get to do the equivalent of A-levels! They almost all left school at 14/15 to go straight into traditional wc jobs that didn't require qualifications (at the time). My dad joining the army was seen as aspirational ffs!

"I am working damn hard" this often comes up on threads discussing advantage and privilege - with the posters forgetting they are LUCKY to have the ability to work hard. Not everyone does.

I have intelligence and academic ability - hasn't helped me recently as my disability and mental illness (ironically mental illness seems MORE prevalent among the intelligent) have made it pretty impossible to work! There's also parents with sick/disabled kids which caring for them makes it at best very difficult to work.

Myotherusernameisapun - exactly! They'll talk it up on their cv.

"Not to mention the fact that these kids will now be able to ask employees of that law firm for professional references - another useful bonus." VERY useful

Orchidinthesun - really? What area of work are you in? Also what if they don't put the specific dates so you don't know it was only 2 weeks? Or if they'd only worked 2 weeks in the supermarket so there's a more direct comparison?

"people like to say that any experience is good experience, but it isn’t true." I agree.

"Any good interviewer" not all are good. Just see the many threads where people describe interviewers asking ridiculous, even illegal (relating to equality laws) questions, behaving unprofessionally themselves.

MaisyPops · 20/06/2018 18:42

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar
Cross posted with you.
I picked up on the same tone though.

Maybe I have been sensitive though. It hit a nerve for me because some of the most supportive parents I've worked with have had very little and some of the most arrogant and entitled PITA I've worked with seem to be of the view 'we bought a house in your catchment so it's you job to ensure our child does well regardless of their effort'.

Bumpitybumper · 20/06/2018 18:43

@fontofnoknowledge
Seems like some folk need to meet the real world.
What does this even mean? Everyone on this thread has acknowledged that nepotism is rife in the 'real world' and what the OP is doing is common. That doesn't mean that we all agree that this is how things should be done generally or in OP's scenario. It's too easy to make out that anyone with moral objections to nepotism is an idiot that doesn't understand how the world works but I think you'll find the opposite, most objections come from people that are all to aware of how this practice permeates all stratas of our society and how it can lead to structural inequality that is very hard to overcome.

As I've said previously I understand the motivation behind nepotism and how wanting the best for your children is absolutely natural. However I also believe that at some point as a society we need to draw the line and say that somethings are too unethical to be allowed. Ultimately the reason people are advocates of nepotism is because it gives themselves or their children/relatives/friends an advantage over someone else. For every winner there will be a loser that should have got the position or opportunity based on merit but ended up losing out. I'm still waiting to hear how this advantages society and even if in this generation you are a winner there is no guarantee that your nearest and dearest won't be the losers at some point.

Dorsetdays · 20/06/2018 18:45

Diego. You’ve missed pasting the first part of the post which actually broadens the point somewhat. Again, the house move was given as an example of how parents make decisions on the basis of giving their children every advantage they can.

Totally agree that not every parent can afford to move house or that it makes them a bad parent if they can’t. But that doesn’t stop them from helping their children in any way that they can.

For example, how is this any different to someone overhearing that a vacancy is coming up whilst they’re down the pub or in the shop and helping their DC to put together a CV and letter and getting it hand delivered before the job is advertised?

ikeepaforkinmypurse · 20/06/2018 18:46

MrsDesireeCarthorse
so your problem is that people can't afford to do it, not that some do, and it's the same with so-called nepotism
As already said upthread, people have issued of not being included, not about nepotism itself. Hypocrisy at its best.

ScreamingValenta · 20/06/2018 18:48

Brilliant post, @Graphista.

PrincessCuntsuelaVaginaHammock · 20/06/2018 18:48

It's absolutely nepotism. Hardly the most egregious example the world has ever seen, but they literally only got their jobs because of who they're related to. That's what nepotism is. Yes, it would also be nepotistic if OP worked in a shop. Or was an accountant, or a butcher. I once got a temp cleaning job because my aunt worked there and for no other reason: that was also nepotism.

That said, it was also a sensible business decision. As again it would have been for an accountant or a butcher. You needed people you could trust and that either means people you know very well or going through an expensive and time consuming recruitment process. It would have been much more costly than it was worth. It's not very realistic to expect private businesses not to do this.

As a solicitor myself, with zero family connections to help, and having had some involvement in recruitment, this wouldn't make any difference. Unless they lied and said they'd done casework maybe. But I can't see how that means it's not nepotism.

SweetSummerchild · 20/06/2018 18:49

Yes, it’s nepotism. Yes, it’s rife in all walks of life.

Remind me again who Jesus Corbyn’s son works for?

Findingdotty · 20/06/2018 18:49

Yes it’s nepotism as you didn’t advertise externally but hired family but it’s not a problem either. Don’t worry about her.

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