This has always bothered me

[AnyLondoner]

You know in the midst of a separation/divorce, you reflect back on your marriage and just think about everything that went wrong. This has always bothered, and I need to hear other people’s view on this.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m extremely happy that he’s getting out of my life, but like I said this has always bothered me.

My MIL is a typical if not worse “my boy can do no wrong, nobody is good enough for him” MIL, we’ve had so many problems and arguments in the past, I’ve always tried to have a relationship with her but she’s very difficult.

What annoyed me the most is her lack of social life and her relationship with her son. Her not having any friends has stopped us from doing certain things. For instance, I’ve always wanted to move out of London but he would refuse and say he don’t want to move that far from his mum.

Even moving to a different London borough is out of the question, we had to stay in the same borough.

Going on holiday is a difficult one too, we once had a 2 week holiday booked to Spain, and he almost cancelled it because two weeks was a long time to be away from his mum. That would have been the longest time he’s ever gone without seeing her, and he felt bad that she was upset. So she managed to go away to Rome with one of her ex partners(that she doesn’t like) whilst we were away, so she wouldn’t have to be alone in the UK for two weeks.

She spends most of her days at our house, he’s constantly taking her out for lunches, coffees, shopping whilst I stay at home with the kids.

If she needs to go to the doctors he’ll go with her, her GP is literally 2 mins from her house. She needs to buy new shoes? He’s coming! Dentist? He’s there!

She’s in her 60s and fully capable of doing it on her own, but wants him there for some reason.
Her WHOLE life is her son, she has no social life no friends. He could never go backpacking around Europe for 2 months, he would feel too guilty because his mother would be “alone”.

I could understand if she was 90 or 104 and she needed care, and he wanted to be close to her but she’s a 60 something women FFS, it just pisses me off that she makes no effort in making friends, socialising do anything with her life, she just relies on her son.

I see people 20 years older than her out and about, doing interesting things. Some people her age are still working. We’ve suggested in the past she should join clubs, but she refuses and thinks they are for “older people”. She’s just fucking lazy and just want to rely on her son.

My three children are under 7, but when they’re grown up and they want to go explore Asia for 6 months, I would be more than happy for them and wave them off. I want them to enjoy their lives and do things they want, no way am I gonna sit in their houses 3-5 times a week drinking tea. Nope, I’m busy wining and dining, travelling, exploring the world.

Even though we’re getting divorced, I feel sorry for him sometimes because if he does something that doesn’t involve her, she makes him feel guilty and he ends up not doing it.

In the past when I would say something, he would accuse me of being jealous. This is not a normal relationship right?

Ruffian he never had any relationship with his dad, he was in and out of prison all the time. And he never saw him when he was out anyway, that's what he's told me.

They both sound institutionalised - they don’t know any different behaviour and can’t get out of their routine without feeling anxious. You’re well out of it all, but just be careful you don’t become one of their “things that they do” - so if it’s Sunday, they see you and the DCs. Make sure you’re busy doing other stuff a lot.

Is he an only child? If his DF died when he was a young boy then it's always been his DM and him as a little unit - they no doubt relied on each other for comfort and unfortunately they really haven't moved on from that. I have never experienced this but I would presume that usually the widowed parent would start forging a life without their spouse and the child would grow up and move on … this clearly didn't happen. I guess his DM thinks she doesn't need anyone else as her DS fulfils her companionship needs, and he is just doing what he has basically been brought up to do, to the detriment of his marriage.

I am glad you have chucked him so that he can be with the woman he truly loves. Shame the law does not allow them to marry, as they seem to be the perfect couple.

I feel really sorry for you, though. :-(

I couldn't stand a husband like this and would never become this sort of mother. We have 3 daughters, 2 of whom are currently living in the USA. We want them to have the life they want for themselves. If you have raised your children right they are able to leave you and spread their wings with no sense of guilt that they are abandoning their parents

There are certain parents who make their children their partners in life. What this means is they are unable to give them what they need when they are small to enable them to grow and detach and go off into the world and form relationships outside in the form of friends and lovers etc.

Instead there is set up a co-dependant relationship in which the child never feels able to detach from their parent because 1) they never got what they needed to enable emotional maturity (sometimes because the parent themselves never got what they needed and are unable to form healthy relationships with adults) and 2) they are getting a little of what they need and don't recognise that in the long term it will impact negatively on their ability to form close attachments once their parent is dead. The term "institutionalised" from the pp above was apt.

Your ex has been shaped to stay close to his mother because that's what his mother needed/needs. I strongly believe parents who make their children into partners are being (if unconsciously) abusive as it stunts emotional growth.

I was someone made into a partner by both my parents. I left and now my brother is my mother's partner at the age of 34. Lives with her, eats with her etc. All conversations go something like 'Oh yes I would have watched that on the tv but your brother isn't really into it'.

I feel sorry for your ex as it is incredibly difficult to break free from as essentially you have been brainwashed into staying but don't blame you in the least for getting out.

Thank you chirpy, your post made so much sense.

My MIL married at 18, she had three children fairly quickly with another man. She got divorced and had my ex at age 39 with someone else. I'll be flamed for this but a part of me sometimes thinks she had my ex at that age, because she wanted a purpose in life, something to do, someone to look after. What were she gonna do now that her other three children had grown up? She's practically not had any adult child free life. She spent nearly her whole life raising kids. And now that all her kids are grown up and have families of their own, she's still relying on my ex for companionship.

AnyLondoner I can really relate to your posts. My own mother is a lot like this. I think it is easy to say that those like your ex need to 'grow up/grow a pair' etc but what people don't understand is he has never been given the emotional input to be able to do that. It may seem like he is simply immature and wants mummy to do his laundry etc. Actually what he needs is/was the right parenting that allowed him to grow separately from his mother and from that maturity will come naturally.

Sadly, because he never got that he will probably stick close to her 1) because he is getting a little of what he needs from her , 2) because those who never got what they needed as very young children always carry the hope that they will eventually get it, however unlikely this may seem, especially if they get something rather than nothing and 3) because even if he did leave he hasn't got the emotional toolbox to form meaningful adult relationships away from his mother.

I sometimes think this is one of the most insidious and damaging forms of parenting as it essentially robs people of their ability to be a separate fully formed adult. It has only been with the help of intensive therapy that I managed to leave and it is still hard sometimes.

If you want to learn more you can google covert incest or emotional incest.

Also, sorry if my posts seem like I am defending him. That is not the case, as I know how frustrating and maddening it must have been for you. I am just trying to shed some light on the causes and hopefully that may help you

I was going to basically say what chirpy said. Parents, who make their children in their life partners because they are themselves needy.

Posted too soon.
My mother is emotionally needy and has created a quasi husband in my brother. Adults aren’t born, they are made by slowly equipping children with what they need to become adults and separate from their parents. Toddlers start this process and basically teenagers finish it. In order to separate, the children need to have formed secure attachments in the first place. If they haven’t, life becomes difficult and co dependency is created. The gaps in my mother’s knowledge of how to be an adult are vast and therefore so were mine. I also had no idea how to be a proper adult until my therapist taught me.

Spot on Mummyoflittledragon

chirpy

I sometimes think this is one of the most insidious and damaging forms of parenting as it essentially robs people of their ability to be a separate fully formed adult. It has only been with the help of intensive therapy that I managed to leave and it is still hard sometimes.

I agree. As the survivor of (prolonged) sexual abuse by a parent, it was actually harder to overcome the emotional abuse from both of them. Like, the sexual assaults were easy to point to and say "This was totally wrong and that's why you're not in my life." The emotional abuse, the parentification, the enmeshment - that's far, far harder to deal with.

pocketsaviour I was also sexually abused from a very young age and agree entirely re it is the emotional abuse that takes the greater toll in many ways. One of the worse things for me is, if there has been overt abuse, people expect you to completely hate your parents, walk away and that is it. But, although strong hate towards them is felt, there is also love, dependency, hope that they will become what you always needed, guilt, obligation, responsibility and an overwhelming sense that you can't live without out them because you've never had a chance to develop as a human being in your own right and it's the only thing you know. But if the abuse is covert, people can't see it and don't understand how bad the emotional stuff is. Oh and enmeshment is one of my favourite words for describing this dynamic!

Anyway, that's my experience....sorry I don't want to derail the thread but wanted to reply

No not at all chirpy, you made me see it from a different angle. I've always seen him as a pathetic mummy's boy.

My youngest is 2 years old, sometimes because I'm tired I say to her " I can't wait for him to grow up a bit, so I can get some peace", and she's always telling me not "to wish it away". I get it, it's a little sad your children are all grown up, but surely you should be happy for them? She's always telling me stories of when ex was young, always showing me pictures. These are pictures and stories I've heard a thousand times but I just nod and smile. It's as if she wants to go back, want to relive it all again.

She also complains about how SIL never contacts her unless she needs something. SIL has her own family to worry but, in MILs mind if you don't text/call her everyday then you're only contacting her when you need something.

When they come home after their day out, MIL always says to ex "thanks X, always there for me", I don't know why but this sentence just makes me feel pissed off.

One time she was ill, and we didn't see her for SIX DAYS. It might seem small to you but that was huge for me, to not see her for 6 days when I'm used to seeing her 3-5 times a week. On day 6, she was due to visit house, and as we were waiting for her to come my ex said " I'm looking forward to seeing mum today, I've actually missed her" that just made me feel sick, I just looked at him with utter disgust. The way he said it was weird, I just saw a little needy boy waiting for his mum.

And then I see all this women here on MN who are NC with their MIL, and I can only wish lol .. i mean he can't even go a week without seeing her.

I love my children very very much, but when my youngest boy is 18, I have a list the length of my arm of things I want to do. And I want them to spread their wings and live life, I'll never be that mother who holds them back.

I'm so so sorry that it happened to you chirpy and pocket. You both sound so brave

Eeewwww. Are you absolutely certain there's not something 'sinister' going on? That there's not more to it than companionship? We've all read Chat magazine....

Thanks AnyLondoner. You say it's a little sad your children are all grown up, but surely you should be happy for them? which is of course the healthy outlook. Sadly when parents are so emotionally needy themselves they can only see what they will lose.

The whole dynamic you describe around seeing your mil so often and your ex missing her after not seeing her for a few days sounds really suffocating and frustrating and probably more so seeing that it is such an alien set up to you. I can understand why the comment about your ex always being there for your mil would anger you; it is a dynamic she has set up and which has essentially robbed you of an adult functioning husband.

I am glad you want more for your children - it is so good that you want them to have a fulfilling life and it is wonderful they have a mum that wishes that for them I hope life will be a bit easier for you a bit more removed from the unhealthy dynamic between your ex and mil.

We've all read Chat magazine....

I haven't.

What is Chat Magazine?

Thank you chirpy, it's nice to hear from someone who's been there done that. Yeah I do feel robbed of an functioning adult, but hopefully I will meet someone who've I'm more compatible with in the future .

I'm so happy that are people who think it's not a normal relationship. Ex has always made me feel like the weird one, accuse me of being jealous if I point of something's not right.

Ex has already met someone new even though we're still living together, I can't help but think that now everything's lovey dovey between, but one day that woman will see what she's got herself into. Because Ex is not gonna stop taking his mum to lunches/coffees/dentist/shopping/GP just because he's seeing someone new, no his mother comes before anything.

When I met ex we lived with his mum for a bit moving getting our own place. There was arguments nearly everyday between his mother and I, I couldn't do anything. She would find faults in everything I did, it was so uncomfortable to live there with her.

She told SIL who told me that, she found it hard when her son married me.

So I guess she felt replaced and jealous. I honestly cannot stand the woman, and can't wait to see the back of both of them when he moves out. Never again!

@meyyael
It’s a kind of true life “confessions” magazine with usually some kind of horrific incesty story headline on the front cover. The print version of clickbait if you will.