How do you defend your toddlers from dogs not on leads?

[Flatearthersphere]

I have 3 children 3 and under, we often go to the park, on walks to different places, our local reservoir with a play area, picnics etc etc..
Anywsy all these areas say dogs should be on leads but they aren't I would say about 50 percent of the time, not exaggerating but just seems the norm round here.

Anyway I am guessing most people could pick up their toddler if a dog came bounding up to them but I have 3, usually 2 in the pushchair and one walking. I thought this would be OK but I was in a situation a few days ago which scared me.

I had 2 in the pushchair, an elderly woman had a big collie which bounded up to us, on one of those extendable leads and she just let it run up to us, I shouted "please pull your dog away" and picked up my eldest but she just said "don't be silly he's being friendly" and I said "I Dont care pull it away" but she refused and it jumped up into my pushchair and scratched all my sons legs even though I was trying to push it away because I was holding a child.

This isn't the first time I've been in this situation, even me and my husband have struggled when we've been holding hands with all 3 and there was a big pit bull cross or something which knocked one of our toddlers clean off his feet.

Genuinely, how do other people deal with these situations? I feel like I can't ever take the children out on my own and like we have to keep them in the pushchair all the time even if there is 2 of us. I'm finding I am avoiding going out now and it's getting depressing.

Sadly uncontrolled dogs will always be ‘thing’. I love dogs, feel comfortable with them, but I appreciate that other people don’t. Some dog owners fail their pets by not training their pets and controlling them properly in public spaces. I agree that you shouldn’t have to but the likelihood is that you will have to.

As the previous poster said, I would stay fairly still, will no real eye contact stand my ground and tell it no. Most friendly, family dogs will understand this. No big movements and no interacting with the dog. Please don’t act in a way that a dog may perceive to be aggressive. Yes an uncontrolled yet friendly dog will move away but acting like this with an agitated,aggressive dog may result in the dog attacking

Losing your licence isn't akin to killing a dog as it approached someone in public.
You're talking about banning dogs off lead. Banning dogs without muzzles.
So my question was would you completely ban alcohol and cars to prevent drunk driving?
I hope and pray that the more batshit "kick all the dogs and throw stones at them" and"muzzle the lot and never let the off lead" are a bonkers minority and live nowhere near me.
Report the dangerous dogs.
Chill out about the rest.
Froth about something else eh?

If I wanted to cuddle or play with a dog I would buy one. Not everyone wants to interact with a dog.

Don't worry OP it's obvious to anyone with half a braincell you are not about to go round booting random pups that come within five feet of your kids. As has been stated repeatedly, an out of control dog literally about to harm your child is a very different matter and we do whatever is reasonable. Some people have nothing better to do with their lives than deliberately misinterpret everything and be goady for the sake of it.

Attack their animals 😂 if they jump up at my kid then the owner is in the wrong ! Tough luck if they don't like my response .

No, I’ll just wait another decade or two and see what happens.
Never let them off the leash? That’s not what was said. On a short leash in public places.

If a dog is close enough to jump up and touch a kid or knock them over then their owners are blatantly irresponsible

So on a short lead anywhere other than my garden? Seriously? Bonkers.
Educate the idiots and leave the responsible owners and well behaved dogs alone.

It isn’t about a dog attacking!!!!! It’s about their claws not able to be retracted like cats so when they jump up and scratch you it fucking hurts. Especially for a toddler...I can’t stand dogs that jump up on strangers. Always idiots in the park with dogs, however once there was one who sat nicely to be stroked instead of jumping up to get near your face, so I made a point about telling her how well mannered her dog was and it’s a shame not all dog owners are like her.

People dont teach dogs manners nowadays. That’s the bottom line.

Thirty years ago, the idea of picking up your dogshit and putting it in a bag you had to dispose of was considered bonkers, unenforceable and an insane reaction to a natural substance.
Educating the stupid isn’t working. Just like asking people not to let their dogs shit everywhere didn’t work until it was backed up by legislation. Now we have poo trees with strange fruit, but at least it’s not smeared on shoes, wheels and clothing any more.

Well no. Many of us do.

It IS backed up by legislation.
If a dog is off lead on a designated route, if it makes anyone feel intimidated (doesn't have to DO anything) or owners fail to have control then it's a serious legal issue.
Just people like you want to ban all the dogs instead of reporting the idiots who flout the law.

I remember that TheNebulousBoojam and skipping carefully down "dog poo alley" as a kid. My mum had our dog put down when the law came in later on because she couldn't face picking it up

If you are old enough to remember that, busybarbara, then like me, you are old enough to have seen all sorts of things change and become illegal or socially unacceptable that were previously unremarkable and completely normal. Hopefully, small children, cyclists, joggers and other members of the public being intimidated and hurt by dogs will also become history.

Because her mother made a bad choice? How is that barbara’s fault?

@Deandre

That's very generalist

My dog very rarely approaches any children other than my own but if one approaches him (which might I add happens far more often than dogs ever approach my children!) he's been taught (by my 5 year old!) to lie on his side and stays put until the child has finished molesting him. Or rolls into his back and appreciates the tummy scratches. He's a biggish collie x Labrador

If any dog approaches either of my children they don't react by flapping/ squealing or making a fuss. Yes they got knocked over a few times as toddlers but they got back up again. They learnt pretty quick that by getting down to dogs level and allowing the dog to say hello it prevented such incidents
I don't see why as an instant reaction to an approaching dog you'd feel the need to "defend" your toddler or lift them out of the way. That isn't teaching them anything other than to fear all dogs.

The incident you mention about the collie on the lead jumping up and scratching your son is different, that is an example of an ignorant dog owner. Much like when random kids come up and pull my dogs tail in the park, is an example of ignorant parenting.

That aside I don't think assuming "defence" against all dogs is necessary. I appreciate not everyone is a dog lover, I don't inflict my dog on anyone (he's usually joint at the hip with my 5year old boy anyway so isn't bothered about anyone else!) but dogs are part of the world and I do think teaching young children to not panic or fear dogs is a better form of defence than swooping in.

I wasn't celebrating it, it's just something I remember happening. To be honest I hadn't thought of it much till now, it wasn't a big deal at the time though I imagine such a thing would seen shocking now. It was also common in the 80s to bury your pets in the garden without seeing a vet if they died and also to put them down if they got sick and the bill would be too much, just what life was like with regard to animals

Good luck with this one. I am totally on the OP’s side here but recognise that many, perhaps most, British people are nuttily in love with their own dogs, and, belonging to a big doggy church of canine believers, tolerate and revere others’ dogs.

My position is that I quite like dogs but am allergic to them so do not want them close to me. I think they are cheerful animals but often not controlled properly and should always be on short leads when out with owners. Nor should owners have more than one as they cannot be monitored properly. They should never be off the leash when children are about and no one should be allowed big jawed, aggressive dogs. (‘What do you mean he’s friendly, you just called him “Killer”.’) My biggest objection is dog poo which I find utterly disgusting and I am nearly of the opinion that hanging a bag of dog excrement on a tree should be a capital offence.

Dog owners should be aware that their sentimental attachment to their pooches is not universal and should respect others’ rights accordingly. Part of this is not pretending that your offensive, intrusive, uncontrolled pet is a harmless darling. Dogs menacing toddlers in parks is completely unacceptable and, were there not the doggy faith conspiracy, gushing and unapologetic owners would not get away with their anti social doggy habits by believing that everyone else adores their dog as much as they do.

I know I will not be popular saying this but it is one of those ‘ what everyone thinks and no one says’ issues.

Having made myself the most unpopular person in the UK I admit I really like cats.

To all those commenting about teaching fear through the parents behaviour. I learnt to be scared of dogs when one jumped on me when I was 4. And knocked me over.
My daughter has learnt to be scared of dogs because (a really lovely) dog licked her in the faces when she was 18 Months. She screamed and screamed and now at the age of 4 is terrified when we see a dog in the street. I have always downplayed it and never shown fear in front of her (I’m mostly over it now except for massive dogs).
Irresponsible dog owners create fear in small children and it can stay with them for life.

My kids grew up around two Labradors who did try and lick them a lot and knock them over when they were little and they love dogs.

Betty what a ridiculous comparison. There is no simmilarity between being licked and even knocked over by a dog you know and having a strange dog run up and do the same thing.

My toddlers laugh at the first one and scream in terror at the second.

Would you accept this behaviour from a stranger- person or animal? No? Thought not!

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

As the mother of a child bitten by somebody else's dog I'd point out the above. Dogs shouldn't be running up to toddlers. A frightened toddler can easily scream and spook a dog resulting in injury and then prosecution.

You can never second guess with dogs.

Op I'd take a stick and a camera.

You can put water in a spray bottle and take aim but the water pistol is probably a better idea because you don’t need to be so close to the approaching mutt. The worst thing about this story is the dog owner’s attitude. Anyone with any common sense, whether they know their dog is friendly or not, can see that a woman with three small children is going to be understandly wary of an animal that at best could knock a small child over or lick when it doesn’t want to be licked with a bacteria-laden tongue. She should have been hugely apologestic. I have had dogs in the past and would have been in this situation.