To think the Mn’s new rules on what you’re allowed to say

[Magpiesarehuge]

Should be flagged to the whole site - is everyone aware of the new 3 strikes and you’re banned policy depending on which words/language you use? Article in The Guardian for more info. Just didn’t see much on it, especially in AIBU.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/2018/jun/13/mumsnet-transgender-row-feminism-tougher-forum-rules

I don't generally message on this subject, though I do read and absorb many of the trans debates here and on Twitter.

I have to say that the article in The Guardian made me really sad and angry at the way it mis-represented the debate as transphobic hate speech, rather than a valid discussion on the erosion of women's rights.

The actions of Mumsnet central in seemingly conceding to the trans-lobby implies that we shouldn't be debating at all, which is really disappointing. God forbid women should discuss issues that infringe on their rights. All it appears to have done is validate the trans agenda and paint people with a transphobic brush bu implying there were issues to actually address.

I thought the article gave a horrible, slanted view of Mumsnet as a place where bored housewives fussed about NIMBYisms. The gleeful comments below were a reflection of the bad opinion put forward and were far more toxic than the informed site debates warranted.

This action seems like an own-goal, when the team had an opportunity to inform and lead debate on one of the most pressing threats to women's rights in decades.

So we aren't allowed to self identify as Cis? I always refer to myself as cis female when discussing issues around gender and sexuality. I can see that TERF could be seen as a slur (though I would think those who the acronym refer to are more than happy to admit that they are feminists who exclude transgender women)
but CIS?? Really?

I think it's a great shame that Nick Baker thinks MN has "for a long time been a horrible place for anyone who advocates for LGBTQ+ rights." That's just not true

It is true, and I know I'm not the only one that feels that way. We choose to stay quiet because we know the vitriol that is launched at anyone that dares to disagree.

Two threads I started yesterday were deleted, so I was feeling a bit nervous. Glad to know that I would be notified if I had broken any rules.

I have to say that the article in The Guardian made me really sad and angry at the way it mis-represented the debate as transphobic hate speech, rather than a valid discussion on the erosion of women's rights

The problem is that so many threads cross the line. It is possible to talk about women's rights without being derogatory to other groups.

I think self identification is fine as HQ have said context is king. So if you're reported for using cis they will be able to see it's being used to self identify. I believe the argument against cis is that it's an unnecessary qualifier as woman is the word for an adult human female on it's own.

@Bombardier25966 Agreed.

If I have a strong and unpopular opinion about something I just keep my mouth shut. Yes you should be able to air your views but sadly you can't. The world has cracked its face. Therefore I'm in the band of thinking what I like but I'd never post/say what I like. However not being able to voice my opinion does not in any way change it.

Bombardier when I discovered both my DC were gay, the support they/I got on MN was outstanding. Not a single bigotted comment, not even from the safe anonymity of MN. The advice on how to ensure both DC felt completely OK to be open about who they were, and how to support them to do this in their own way and time was great. But I am only speaking of my own experience. If you don't feel you can openly express your beliefs without vitriol, that's a concern.

If anyone tries to call me 'cis', especially ds, they get it back with knobs on. I am a woman (adult human female); and I utterly refuse to be branded/labelled with the terminology of some interest group in order to change who I am. They can fuck right off.

I don't think MN is actually that great on LGBTQ support. There was a thread a while ago from a girl wanting to come out as bisexual and the responses were shocking - lots of stuff about how it was showing off or attention seeking, that it would be selfish to tell her family, that it wasn't fair on her husband etc. There were a couple of supportive voices but the vast majority were firmly advising her to stay in the closet. And more recently someone described a new partner being bisexual as a red flag and got support in the comments. And I've seen a thread where a woman was asking for advice about her lesbian daughter having a difficult / possibly abusive girlfriend and there were a load of responses about lesbianism being a trendy phase among teenagers and something the daughter would grow out of.

I think if you're a gay man or a lesbian MN is largely a supportive environment, but if you're bisexual / pansexual / asexual / queer / non-binary / trans / gender non-conforming it can be very hostile indeed.

Justine is quoted as saying:

“Mumsnet will always stand in solidarity with vulnerable or oppressed minorities,” said founder Justine Roberts. “Mumsnet is also committed to freedom of speech. Sometimes these two issues come into conflict, rarely more so than in the recent debate about what is acceptable to say, or not to say, about trans people.”

Are women not vulnerable then? We're facing losing women only spaces to men who are still legally men as they have not physically transitioned. We are also subject to violence by men (not necessarily transgender men) on a daily basis and the majority of murders of women are carried out by men.

I happily identify as cis and I imagine I'll be able to continue doing so - no one else has any right to be offended by how I personally identify myself. If another person doesn't like the term to be used in reference to them, I won't call them that. That seems fair and reasonable.

This is very disappointing

I have no problem with the new guidelines. If they're the price of admission to the last sane place on the internet to discuss trans issues in a way that allows balanced debate (admittedly not necessarily on any given thread), I'll gladly pay. I have learned so much from trans threads both in aibu and the feminist forums. No one else is saying this stuff. I think Justine Roberts is being exceptionally brave, especially as compared to numerous other public figures and organisations, in pushing the envelope this far. I think we will look back and be sad and disgusted that she was pretty much the only one.

The guardian article tried to be balanced up til the point where they gave the Hero guy the last word... And as for the link to the item about the intern who tweeted gender critical posters' IP addresses, words fail me. Lovely that she's apologised and all but I hope there will be proper repercussions, as there surely would be if the boot were on the other foot.

ah so it applies to a particular area rather than the whole.

Im assuming it does apply to the whole

A bit weird if it doesnt

I'm not cis and neither is my adult daughter. I'm allowed to say that without being a terf?
Apparently not

There clearly needs to be a debate where parents have a voice to answer the trans lobby and some of its unwarranted assertions about children's and even foetuses' "gender identities". But will Mumsnetters be held to the unreasonable standard of anyone being able to claim that such posts are "hurtful" or "critical generalizations"? The Guardian article certainly suggests that, and I disagree. There are few people standing up for children's rights not to be put through an ideological wringer-washer, and websites that facilitate such dialogue should not be curtailed by pressure on their advertisers.

I wonder if a subject like "AIBU to resist suggestions that I should block my child's puberty?" will be allowed for discussion. Because this pressure is already prevalent in many families and schools.

I'm happy about it. The term "TIM" is absolutely disgusting.

Actually the term is proscribed, the mods say, because transgender people do not identify as transgender, which is a rather egregious falsehood since evidence to the contrary is available nearly everywhere including on threads here on Mumsnet.

We are awaiting confirmation that it is only the FWR posters who have to be careful not to be hurtful to natal males. We are concern about what this will mean for the transwidows thread.

Kate has said on the other thread it will be site wide www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3277316-Mumsnet-moderation-of-trans-rights-and-gender-critical-issues-II?msgid=78674537

Trash

She did, i saw that

Having said that apparently the deletions started yesterday to ease us in

But I haven't seen anything on aibu or chat about MNHQ policy yet...i have been out so may have missed it

You could put up a banner at the top, I always log in at active conversations, never the front page. Our forum has one which says in big bold red letters.

"Personal attacks will not be tolerated anywhere on this site, offending posts may be removed without consultation and warnings will be issued." This appears at the top of every page, so you could be talking about gladioli in the gardening area.

Avoids any misunderstandings and cuts down on the excuses.