Man may have photos of DS on tube

[AcrossTheOcean]

Hi all,

On the tube the other day a man who seemed odd to me pointed his phone at my young DS and I thought he may have been taking photos or video 😟

I started to try to get his attention saying excuse me but then just ended up trying to position myself between his phone and my DS, somewhat unsuccessfully. An older woman a couple seats down looked on with concern but didn't say anything.

Just wondering what other mums would have done?

I'm wondering what the man was arrested for MrsHappyAndMrCool
I don't imagine it was because he was taking photos more the kerfuffle after everyone got involved surely?

Some prick came barrelling out of his house the other day to tell me to store taking photos of inside his car. I was using google maps to see if I was meant to turn off onto the side road his car was parked at the corner of.

Not everything is a sinister and dramatic occurance!

changemyname1 - He got arrested for laying into the person that tried to take the camera, and was arrested and charged for the other images he had on the camera.

This exact thing happened to my son a while back and I posted just as you have OP- wonder if it’s the same weird man?!
Anyway, I got absolutely flamed on here for being hysterical and ended up feeling really embarrassed and silly. But I maintain that the whole event was super creepy and I can’t apologise for feeling a bit violated that some random bloke had footage of my son on his phone to do god knows what with. I think you just have to chalk it up as symptomatic of this day and age- at least you were in a public place and no physical harm was done.
I’m always a bit wary now whenever I see people with phones out taking photos- I hope you’re ok

I’m always a bit wary now whenever I see people with phones out taking photos

That must be everytime you are out.

SOME men DO specifically go out with the sole intention of collecting photos of children

Yes, I’m sure they do.
So they get a photograph of a child.
They go home and look at that picture and have their own disgusting thoughts.
It is of course not what any parent would even like to think about for their child, but what harm is it doing to your child?

Yes you have every right to ask him to stop, but no harm is coming to your child.

Noeuf def. the most important part is do the children know how to stay safe.

DS is year 2

Yes, maybe selfie though he looked at us before holding up the phone etc.

Yes, the fact that it was a man who I felt was behaving a bit oddly made me more concerned, as in what's going on? And why??

"So they get a photograph of a child.
They go home and look at that picture and have their own disgusting thoughts.
It is of course not what any parent would even like to think about for their child, but what harm is it doing to your child? "

It's the harm to other children.

They don't just go home and look at the picture. They photoshop the child's calm or happy face onto the face of a child who is being abused and is distressed and crying. The resulting photo is then shared. This enables them to sell the myth that children enjoy sexual abuse.

You may be perfectly happy with your child's image being used for this purpose; I am not.

Firstly, it's not illegal if he was in a public place.
The motivations for taking a picture could be:

1. To capture something else, and he's incidental to the shot
2. To capture a certain look he had
3. To share with others (look at this kid's funny t-shirt / this kid looks so bored etc)
4. Something ulterior

Now, I've recently enjoyed a fantastic portfolio of scruffy urchin kids (photographed in the 70's) of kids in Liverpool and Manchester, and they are absolutely wonderful images of how life used to be in the inner cities. Had those photographers been on the streets today, many of those amazing photos would not be possible. I find that to be a real shame.

Of course, it's sensible to be wary of illicit photographers and potentially ulterior motives, but we can become paranoid too. We've reached a situation where even parents are too scared to take photos of their own kids in some settings, or schools are fearful and ban photography etc. I'm not saying that's all bad, just saying that when we ban photography, or we frown upon candid snapshots, we also lose something.

Tanith - Exactly!

www.porterfolio.com/some-liverpool-kids-1974-page

Some of these would not be possible today.

MedivinalGin and all thanks, it was creepy and I am not and by no means was not hysterical. It is a violation absolutely, particularly depending on the situation. And this is not a situation where my DS pics are in newspapers or the school website, all fine obviously.

Also, I've dated a professional & occasional street photographer and taken many photos out and about myself. This was not that though you only have to read debates around that kind of work and people like Diane Arbus, to see even there there are questions about were these photos violations/exploitations or not.

Also, this was not a group shot. He was directly across from us.

Anyway, this ended up being more than I wanted to say on the subject and actually I don't know what he did. I hadn't really taken my thinking so far as to what this might be for but it has been a good reminder about talking to my DS about staying safe in public now and as he gets older.

Personally, I wouldn't take a picture of a child without permission. Also, I posted a photo of myself pregnant with my belly showing on Facebook and it ended up on some random other sites, including a Chinese language one 😳

So, the poster that mentioned their child's photo everywhere I'm so sorry! That sucks. And also want to thank the poster who posted the transport police number. Going in my phone that.

Anyway, thanks for all replies, good to hear a range of thoughts.

Why got to the length of taking a photo of a random child to Photoshop onto a image of abuse
Just download an image and use that.
If you are concerned about pictures of your child being available best get them to walk about with a bag on their head. They will be photographed 200 times a day on cctv on average.

They don't just go home and look at the picture. They photoshop the child's calm or happy face onto the face of a child who is being abused and is distressed and crying. The resulting photo is then shared. This enables them to sell the myth that children enjoy sexual abuse.

Whilst that can be true... I think you underestimate how little they need to do that:

1. Real abuse images exist without the need for faked ones
2. The ease with which they can trawl facebook for photos is unnerving
3. The risk of taking a photo in a public place is high - it's far more likely the photographer is in fact quite innocent - and has no ill intent.
4. Yes, perverts do exist. They can at a school gate, a swimming pool, a public park or a family event.

Photography of people in public places is becoming so difficult. All we'll end up with is billions of selfies on social media that are giving away far more personal information than ever, and hardly any candid photos of how we live as a society. We can look back at old photos and some sense of what life was like - but how will we do that in 50 years times looking back at history now? we'll just have 1 billion duckfaces or have to pay Getty an extortionate amount to look at a candid photo!

I underestimate nothing when it comes to these people.
I do get very cross with the sneery "paedophile on every corner" posts that attempt to rubbish posters with experience in Safeguarding, hence my comment.

Maybe your son was right where there was a Pokemon and the guy wanted to catch it.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.
Are you suggesting that the majority of photographers who might take a public photo where children are in the photos are likely to have ulterior motive? (I don't think you are saying that, but just checking).
Or...
Are you arguing that it's best not let anybody take photographs involving kids in public places because they might have ulterior motives?
Or...
Are you arguing that the technique of melding one child's face onto another body is usually done through photographs taken in a public place by a photographer, rather than taken off Facebook / instagram / countless other online media sources?

The protection of looked-after children is far more at risk on social media than any photographer on the streets.

They don't just go home and look at the picture. They photoshop the child's calm or happy face onto the face of a child who is being abused and is distressed and crying. The resulting photo is then shared. This enables them to sell the myth that children enjoy sexual abuse.

Why would they need to take a picture on the tube to do this? They can just google "5 year old boy" and find thousands of results without risking a confrontation in public.

If I thought someone was taking a picture of my DC, I would ask what they were doing because it is odd, but it wouldn't make me worry too much. It worries me less than pictures in newspapers which say what school she goes to, for example.

I don't disagree with you by the way - not about the awful exploitation and effect that such images have. I just (think) I disagree with you about the inference that they need to take photos in public for that to happen. Photographers and innocent parents are paying a heavy price for what they 'think' is stopping bad things happening. It's not stopping it though.

I think it's sad that parents can't capture their kids swimming now, or (particularly for men) daren't take a camera on a beach for fear of someone assuming the worst. Not sure what can be done about that in the current climate though.

Why would they need to take a picture on the tube to do this? They can just google "5 year old boy" and find thousands of results without risking a confrontation in public.

It’s makes no sense to the rational mind does it? But I constantly see (or saw, as I am no longer involved) a connection between child abuse and stupidly risky behaviour. For example, the school teacher who sat girls on his lap in assembly. Of course when someone raised concerns they were told “as IF he would do it in front of loads of other adults”. When a camera was brought into school, a concerned parent was told they were ‘hysterical’ and ‘as if anyone is interested in little girls knickers or swimming costumes’ and anyway even if he was, he’d take pictures off the internet not risk his job etc etc.

Was sentenced at St Albans Crown Court this year.

Hiding in plain sight? yeah, can happen.
But what on earth are we all supposed to do?

I don't know what the answer is, I'm just wary of tossing the baby out with the bathwater when we stop so many activities (and despite stopping them, it doesn't appear to have any tangible impact on the reduction of abuse).

Oh I agree. You can’t spend your life worrying, only taking sensible precautions. My only reason for posting is that I object to the sarky comments some posters have made to the OP and calling her hysterical.

While some people are of course over cautious, I think most people actually underestimate the problem or the behaviour patterns.

That doesn’t mean we should smash all cameras, call all men peados or put bags over our kids heads as some posters seem to think is being suggested.

I'm curious what people would say if a photographer did take a photo of you, or your children and then told you about it - explaining they'd caught a fantastic moment. If they showed you the photo - what would be people's reaction?

• Delete it right now, you have no right? ( you can't easily stop it )
• How much are you willing to pay me to use it?
• That's great, you're free to use it (just not for commercial gain, or campaigning)?

I'm thinking about the photographers who took those great shots of 70's kids on inner city streets. How would they fare today?

@tomfromtheinside

I think that’s one of those situations where instinct and common sense come into play. You can generally get a feel for someone’s intentions. I’d like to think I’d be fairly cool about it but it’s such an unusual situation I guess I don’t know unless it happens.

I do know I’d think they were bloody brave though!

Sorry, username spelling fail