Epilepsy vs. Pregnancy on the Tube.

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I never ever take a seat on the tube unless there are several free, and I am always happy to stand up if there aren't many free usually.

My epilepsy has been super bad recently - as in two or three seizures overnight - I'm fucked basically (there is no way to say this nicely; I'm a mess). I've had to take the tube a couple of times and on these occasions I have sat down; twice I used the "priority seat".

The second time, I had a pregnant woman (with the badge, but not really a bump yet) ask me to move. I explained I wasn't well and it caused a bit of a shit storm... I was called a few choice words and not wanting to deal with it stood up and gave her the seat, and someone else gave me a normal seat.

However, now wondering whether I should have moved - is there any "rules" on who gets priority of the priority seats on public transport?

Imo if you're eligible for a priority seat - i.e. Meet the criteria it's first come first served.

I have Epilepsy - fortunately controlled for several years now and have had 2 children. For what it's worth post seizure recovery can take more than a day and was far worse than my worst day pregnant ever.

You shouldn't have to explain your condition. I would hope she is in the minority and just a bit entitled. I would just show people my pass if they asked.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience - you did nothing wrong.

I would say that I am epileptic and have had seizures recently and apologise.

I've had Vaso-vagal fits since age 4 and the tube is bad for them as I panic, I've even had funny looks when I sit on the floor sometimes.

YOU ARE JUST AS ENTITLED TO A SEAT.

Do not be ashamed. I tell people I am prone to having seizures and do not feel safe standing sometimes ... they've never questioned after that.

I have a freedom pass because of my epilepsy. And yes a seizure does leave you drained and exhausted for at least 24hours. I actually remember my neurologist saying it can take 3 days to fully recover from a seizure (tonic clinic)

YANBU and I’ve been pregnant and would still have given my seat up if you had asked and said I’m epileptic

Did you say unwell or that you had epilepsy? Unwell could be a cold or a chancer with a hangover. I would explain you had epilepsy and hope that some healthy person with s seat made a good choice and gave one of you their seat.

tfl.gov.uk/transport-accessibility/please-offer-me-a-seat

Please get a Please Offer Me a Seat badge and card.

As a Tube member of staff, and a first aider, I'd far rather you were sitting down than stood up, risking injury should you have a fit and fall. It's easier to move you off the train from a sitting position than from the floor too. So tell all the pregnant women to find somewhere else to sit. They don't have to sit in the priority seat the self-entitled plums. Honestly.

sorry you had that experience.
can you take a (folding) walking stick? that would make you less 'invisible' and you can shake at people

As someone who stood on London overground PAST my due date, even after fellow passengers had asked when I was due, and as someone who thinks the 'baby on board' badges are tacky as f**k, I would say a pregnant woman can stand.

She was fine to ask and I'm glad she did ask someone in pregnancy.

Your response was perfectly reasonable.

The correct form after that was for someone else who wasn't pregnant, disabled or for any reason less able to stand (like most people) to offer their seat. I think someone did offer a normal seat to you but the pregnant woman shouldn't have made you feel uncomfortable about saying no.

If no one had offered when you saod no, he response should be "ok no problem, can anyone else give me a seat".

I don't think pregnant women should stand if they are feeling ill, extra tried, sick, uncomfortable because they are less able to stand than the majority.

YANBU! She wasnt being unreasonable to politely ask you if you minded moving but she very much was being unreasonable to kick up a fuss when you said you were unwell so couldnt.... there are loads of 'invisible' reasons why someone may need a priority seat... shes an absolute twat

My mum has MS and she appears 'well' despite having very poor balance and struggling to walk.. and some people are absolute arseholes on public transport about it... its like if you dont look a certain way or are in a wheelchair then you cant possibly need a seat

sorry that happened to you

Been pregnant 3 times (including when living in London). Eldest son has epilepsy. Personally I reckon epilepsy trumps a non-complicated pregnancy when it comes to needing a seat.

But she was being an idiot.

Pregnant woman did the right thing asking someone who was sitting in the priority seat and didn't look as if they needed it if they would give up their seat to her.

You did the right thing by explaining that you needed it too

She should then have asked someone else without making you feel guilty

Do French trains still have that detailed priority list of who gets a seat first, does anyone know? I remember on a school trip seeing a sign that made it clear that WW1 veterans got a seat over WW2 veterans, for example

No one has any idea if she was having a non-complicated pregnancy, or how poorly she was feeling. She wouldn't have had to appear 'entitled' if one of the other people who stayed sat down (the actual entitled ones who were happy to stay seated and watch two people in need fight it out) had jumped up right away as they should have. People implying pregnant women shouldn't expect a seat because they chose to have a baby are utterly dense and a bit sadistic.

OP if your seizures are that poorly controlled and you were feeling dazed should you be on the train? the badge is a good idea and no need to explain beyond "i am disabled".

I would get a badge OP. The woman had every right to ask and you had every right to stay. She should have accepted that and and another able passenger should have moved.

She did have the right to ask though. Well done to those who stood however for me i suffered intense dizziness to bp and PGP so desperately needed a seat. Thankfully never had to ask as i would have been worried about asking someone who needed it.

Really every seat should be a priority seat so those less able to stand can use. I recently broke my foot and again needed a seat.

illness or disability trumps pregnancy as the latter is a choice
How stupid, how do you know the illness or disability wasn't caused by a lifestyle choice? Sport, weight, smoking...
By your logic a woman 9m pregnant with twins should stand for anyone having say an arm in a cast?

I had a pregnant woman (with the badge, but not really a bump yet) ask me to move. What I remember about pregnancy was people were quite happy to offer seats when I was huge but otherwise perfectly able to stand, but in the early days when I was merely sick (sometimes having to do the journey one stop at a time), there were no offers (even though the difference between sitting and standing was the difference between holding on to the next stop or throwing up over the floor). So although without a bump she might have been more in need than a woman at a more advanced stage of pregnancy.

How that compares with epilepsy I don't know. Really it shouldn't ever become a competition "my disability is greater than yours".

@urubu that's not exactly what I said - if two people NEED a priority seat disability trumps pregnancy in my book. A broken arm doesn't necessarily need the priority seat - I'm not saying that everyone with an injury should use the priority seats.
Even if disability is caused by a hobby, no one chooses to have a life changing scenario thrust upon them - a biker goes out to ride, not to end up in a wheelchair.

It is obvious that both the pregnant woman and OP ought to have been seated on the tube.

Just to reiterate what many pp have said - the size of the bump is no way to measure the level of need a pregnant woman has for a seat. I had no bump at a time when any journey standing would have resulted in vomit all over the carriage.

@happymummy12345 You always seem to pop up on these threads to say that YOU didn't need a seat all the way through pregnancy, therefore no pregnant women need seats. Do you understand the logical fallacy of this position? I have two relatives with epilepsy. One has epilepsy that is currently dormant and thus has no special needs on public transport. On your reasoning, this means that nobody with epilepsy needs a seat. It seems that you are looking for a medal or trophy for having had an easy pregnancy or pregnancies. I do hope you will accept a massive virtual round of applause.

@FairfaxAikman and other posters suggesting that disability trumps pregnancy because pregnancy is a choice - using any barometer other than the level of need is both stupid and inhumane. The reason for priority seats (and the reason for people generally standing up for those less able to stand) is that other people need them, not that other people morally "deserve" them. It is surely basic humanity to say "This person needs my seat more than I do". What sort of person would actually say "Well indeed, but she brought it on herself"?

FWIW, even if it weren't a horrifically inhumane way of looking at things, it would be wrong to assume that no disabilities are caused by choices or that pregnancy-related issues are chosen. My friends who are (persistently or occasionally) less able to stand on public transport include:

1. A friend with epilepsy as a result of an accident caused by her own reckless driving.
2. A friend with a spinal injury as a result of drunkenly falling off a balcony on a stag do.
3. A friend with organ damage due to excessive alcohol consumption.

Should any of these people be made to stand because of their own culpability, or does it matter one iota when the result is that they need to sit down?

FWIW, yes I did agree to be pregnant albeit I didn't realise (because all pregnancies are different) that I was signing up to severe morning sickness in the first half of pregnancy and severe joint pain, anaemia and low blood pressure in the second. If, rather than looking at how much I needed a seat, someone tried to argue that I was less deserving because I signed up to be pregnant, I would have been only delighted to stand right next to him/her and either vomit all over him/her (first half of pregnancy) or fall onto him/her (second half of pregnancy).

Yabu however I would spell out in future that you have epilepsy and are having a bad run of seizures. Once this is explained anyone reasonable will understand why you are sitting there.

OP if your seizures are that poorly controlled and you were feeling dazed should you be on the train?

Blimey - opinions on whether you should use the train at all! You can't drive by law and now public transport is out too! We might as well be sent back to the asylum!

As a pregnant woman who is finding it very hard to stand on the tube/train - she was completely unreasonable and in the wrong. I actually think it's unacceptable to ask a specific person for a seat because of the risk of embarrassing them in this way; what I do (with a 100% success rate thus far, and I'm 36 weeks pregnant) is to just say loudly but to the air 'would someone be able to give me a seat, please?'. That way no one is forced to explain their invisible disability to me - that's not an explanation they should have to give or that they owe me.

Hey tubejube, I have a "please offer me a seat" badge, as I have 2 invisible disabilities which make standing on the tube or a bus really hard. You don't have to prove anything to get them, and they are free. Just go to the TfL website and fill out the form. My badge arrived within about 10 days. I have been offered a seat almost every time since I got it, except just a couple of bus journeys which have been really full and people probably didn't see it on my bag!