To fucking despair that young men think like this? *Trigger warning*

[Tobythecat]

I know it's the Dailyfail, but what the actual fuck?! Are we still living in a civilised society?! The comments are depressing as hell, with some even excusing it as 'just banter hahaha'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5833725/Warwick-University-expels-three-students-sick-Facebook-group-chat.html

What is disturbing to me is that they are supposed to be somewhat educated people

Look through the news, social media etc and you'll see it's actually quite a lot of men (I'm beginning to feel like it's all of them).

I don't know where you are looking, because I don't see it. I am not saying that they don't exist, but they are absolutely not the majority. I work in a male-environment, have male friends and so on, and I really don't see it.
You wouldn't say that all mothers are abusing their children because of a few deranged individuals, would you.

Some guys make sleazy comments and try to "pull" in bars or clubs, you just ignore them, they are harmless. They are not the majority!

I spent ten years working in the sports industry and the majority of it was 17- 27 year old men (boys)

The disgusting stuff they used to talk about in the staff room was dreadful . I’m sure they would never speak like that in front of their female family members.

I think a lot of it was bravado and said just for a laugh not fully understanding the disgusting misogyny around ‘rapey’ Jokes and women’s private areas or even the amount of girls they were shagging.

The vile videos being shared on their watsap groups were sickening. But they thought it was funny.

I feel that the majority of males feel like this to be honest. I think it’s the minority of men who recoil from this stuff.

My DD (along with the other girls, she is not singled out) has encountered terrible, misogynistic, humiliating, aggressive behaviour from boys on the school bus for years. Mothers of sons - make it your business to find out how your darling son REALLY behaves when he's with his mates. Most of the boys are from great homes with lovely parents - it's evident that parents have NO IDEA how foul they are to the girls...it's not just 'boys will be boys' or 'letting off steam'. I agree with the PP above who suggests that as their behaviour is unchallenged, they begin to think it's normal.
In DD's case, the girls pretty much feel that those boys are beneath contempt.

No not all men think like this, of course not, just these three nasty little pieces of amoeba. They are all mouth, I bet they haven't been near one, and could not get one to kiss them on the cheek. Britain's finest, humm. What with the students from Oxford Uni creating a scene after exams.

you don't understand the point, no one is accepting their behaviour, but pointing out that they are not the majority, they are only a couple of idiots among thousands of decent people. Also pointing out that there is a HUGE difference between posting that sort of nonsense and actually raping 100s of girls

I never said they were a majority. Women are raped by a minority of men. I don't agree that there is not a huge gap between a subculture where sexually assaulting women is applauded and men actually going on to sexually assault women. We are already seeing the representations of sexual behaviour people watch on porn filtering into people's actual sexual behaviour. What starts of as a normalised 'fantasy' ends up as reality.

Awful awful behaviour. I hope they now look back in shame. What must the women, who gave birth to them think about this behaviour?

Don't despair

The university expelled them (I didn't read the article and don't need to), more and more this is happening in response to attitudes and behaviour like this.

Kids in university are not the same as intelligent, respectful kids! It's not a default connection.

Other students report things like this because they are appalled. Also this isn't normal or acceptable, hence the response from others and the formal response.

So we're moving forwards.

They don’t all think like that. But boys/men seem to be worse in a group and SM is making it easier to see that behaviour (which would once have been spoken and thus ephemeral). There is an awful machismo and a fear of standing up to the others.

I don’t like men as a group. Never have. Teaching in an all boys environment in the past has shown me that they are at their worst when they aren’t around women/girls.

But not all men are like this. My husband isn’t and his friends aren’t. My DS will not be if I can help it.

I’m not going to despair about the whole sex while Warwick uni is actually disciplining them. It’s not Gilead territory until the actual institutions say ‘nah, that’s fine, you go on with your racist and misogynistic ways’.

I don't like men as a group?
But I'm not going to despair about the whole sex?

Have I misunderstood and you mean men in groups behave bad?

I work in a pub, I have overheard groups of men of all ages talking like this when they think no one is listening, I don’t think it’s a case of being young and stupid. Some men come out with racist and sexist statements to my face and think nothing of it. They call it ‘banter’ because that lets them get away with it, if you challenge it you just ‘don’t get the joke’. Sadly I personally believe based on my own experiences that it is a minority of men who are good people and genuinely regard women as their equals and as human beings. I don’t know any women my age (early 20s) who have not been sexually assaulted, I knew several boys at school who were involved in gang raping a girl in my year, they were ‘nice boys’ from good families, were well educated and can continue to put out an image of themselves as upstanding members of society because there is no consequence to their behaviours. If men don’t call other men out on talk like this it escalates. Good on Warwick university for expelling them.

Ikeep - I'm looking at the article about the men proud of themselves for driving an actress off of social media for daring to be in a star wars film. I'm looking at the rape and death threats female politicians get. I'm looking at the stats that show 2 women a week in this country are killed by their partner or ex partner. I'm looking at the comments on news and social media where men threaten to rape women for giving their opinion. I'm looking at the everything around me and realising that while NAMALT, what women go through because of the ones that are like that is overwhelming.

Silkpyjamasallday has worded what I mean well.

siwel - I mean men/boys in a group I find less pleasant than as individuals.

Ah that makes sense now .

I'm not disputing there's some horrible sexist and misogynistic men out there. But they're certainly not the majority.
I know no one who holds these disgusting opinions and I know every man in friends with/ know would call anyone out if they said anything like this or behaved badly.

Slapbetcommissioner
again, you could say the same about parents abusing their children, I see far too many stories about kids being killed and tortured. You would never say that all parents or the majority of parents are abusers!

So no, I don't think that kind of men belong to any majority. You just never hear about the many women who end up alone in their underwear in a room full of men (willingly, during various sports events for example!) and don't hear the slightest joke. Respectful and pleasant men are the huge majority.

Ikeep - I'm glad you believe that good men are the majority because that means you know a lot of them and that's a fantastic thing. Like I said I do know deep down it can't be all men it just feels overwhelming to me the amount of bad men I experience/hear about.

Have you seen the film Riot Club? I always wonder how close to real life that is...

The issue is with how men and boys talk to each other when they think there are no women/girls around to hear. A lot of young men speak in absolutely disgusting terms about women but they wouldn't do it in mixed company so everyone thinks they're 'nice lads'. And then they don't see that sort of 'banter' as incompatible with being 'nice'.

Look at the number of people who came out to defend Donald Trump's comments about grabbing pussy as 'locker room talk'. Men were falling over themselves to say, 'Oh that's normal, we all talk about you like that when you're not there, it doesn't mean anything.' Completely missing the point that women don't want fake respect where men are minding their manners in their presence but feel OK to speak about them as if they are pieces of meat as soon as it's just the boys.

There seems to be a culture of ritualised misogyny used as male bonding that starts when boys are young and which some never grow out of (though a great deal of them do). I don't believe teenage boys who make rape jokes or other generally misogynistic comments are a minority. I certainly believe that a majority would never do it if he thought a woman might hear, but that's not quite the same thing.

Slapbetcommissioner
I don't really make a difference between male and female in my daily life, I can't see one group as a danger for the other. Most people are pretty decent, if a bit or a lot selfish.

That said, there are too many abusers and too many cowards bashing up women, I just don't see them as the majority.

I agree with Graunt It is not OK to "banter" like this, regardless of what you'd do to a real, live woman. It's provides the medium in which actual violence and sexual assault can florish.

There was a radio interview this morning, which included a report that although at 18 we are classed as adults are brains esp males to reach adulthood till mid twenties, some of these people may regret what they’ve said in years to come

I agree with the op who said that porn has set us back 1000 years.
The most disturbing thing is that these are not total thickos. These are young men clever enough to get in to one of the best universities. How depressing is that ? The SHAME if this was a son of mine, imagine being the mother of a lad like this. I suppose they must come from racist homes. Used to treating some people as less than human. Other races, other cultures, women. Really sickening and scary.
The pps post about the girl assaulted by a group made me cry. What sort of world is this for teenage girls?

Indeed SirVix.
My boys are just young but I have a copy of the letter that the survivor of Brock Turner's sexual assault read out to court. I also have a copy of the speech that Michelle Obama gave in New Hampshire in response to Donald Trumps 'locker room' comments. When they are older, i think these will be good reference points for them to understand women's perspectives.

SirVixo I think that the real problem is that the boys probably come from really nice homes with parents who are blissfully unaware of how they are behaving away from home when they are in a pack. I think that then said boys start to get a confused blurring of the lines between what is acceptable and what is not.
I think this happens because parents lose touch with how their teens are behaving due to the trend to encourage young people to live like adults when they are still young to mid teens.