(Relatively) new to the Civil Service - AIBU to ask about career progression and other more general advice please?

[ImSuchABigIdiot]

Started an entry-level (EO) Civil Service job a couple of months ago. I’m enjoying it so far, although it can be quite stressful.

Aany tips on career progression and any other general advice about working in the Civil Service?

Thanks!

prince I’m hoping the move to strength-based interview and technical requirements will sort out those who aren’t very good at their jobs but are good at competency writing. In my bit of the civil service they are found out very quickly for what they are and it just wastes everyone’s time.

Blueshoes I stay because I have an enormous amount of job satisfaction, flexibility and I can’t do the job I have anywhere else. The flexibility I have does work both ways though - some days I can drop off at school but others I can be working until 1 or 2am to meet deadlines (ministers, the courts or press office).

I will have to leave in the next 4-5 years because of the shift out of central London by my dept. I’ll stay in the same profession but work for an advisory firm and probably earn 50% more than I do now.

Colleagues with my professional background are leaving in droves. The lack of pay progression is tough. I’m G6 so no where to go but SCS and the pay increase v responsibility is dreadful!

OP - a word of unsolicited advice. Join the union.

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I agree with others that the focus on competencies and jumping through hoops is unhelpful and leads to promotion of people who are actually less competent. I’m a RG grad and failed to progress due to this, I just didn’t fit the mould. It was soul destroying. But I now realise it was the wrong environment for me, toxic in some ways, I’ve been talking to a friend who is still there and has suffered two serious bouts of bullying by managers, I experienced similar. I’m now progressing in the private sector and have a lot of more responsibility and ability to make a difference - to my own job, the company and to the country indirectly. I have far more personal autonomy and am trusted to get on with my job. I’ve been promoted in post without jumping through hoops, just because I’m good at what I do. The only downside is the pension is rubbish. Some private sector jobs are similar to the civil service so it’s about finding the right place for you.

I wonder if some managers are promoted beyond their ability and that has caused the incidents my friend has experienced? My friend is lovely, intelligent and competent so I don’t understand the bullying managers. She’s more competent than more senior colleagues but didn’t put herself forward for promotion for many years.

Does anyone know anything about the 'talent pipeline' for people who passed the recruitment tests but didn't get selected for interview? If it's a dept that are expanding in certain areas, and I scored well on the tests, is it likely I'll ever hear from them again?

Tumble lots of entry points - apprenticeship, direct into some roles with A-C, graduate programme, professional experienced hires.

In my dept RG not important at all. Once you’re in, you’re in and we don’t even care if you have a degree. Different elsewhere- HM Treasury, FCO and Cabinet Office seem to prefer RG for their grads.

Thank you for the great stories of working for the civil service, and not so great.The civil service must be a broad church, as is the private sector. Very interesting.

Could i ask a question, you all seem to be in different areas of the civil service. Have they been welcoming to those who enter later in life and with kids?

Whizzy yes. Plus we recognise talent at all ages - if you’re good then we’ll develop that and push you on. I was on a grad programme in the 2000s with a 45 year old woman and 53 year old man.

Sorry to hijack- I’m looking out for g7 jobs in the Dept of Health and Social Care in London. Does anyone know the culture there? I want to make a difference at system level. Everyone I have met from Dept of health over the last couple of years seems a bit beleaguered. Is that the general reality?

Very long hours because many colleagues have been made redundant and not replaced etc. My nearest alternative is NHS England which from experience is quite dysfunctional as a working culture so that isn’t very appealing.

BogDiscuits I did a secondment maternity cover to DH in 2012, so a bit out of date. I came from a real “heart of government” type department and was shocked at how peripheral DH felt.
Constant fire fighting because they didn’t have basic systems in place and information was stored in people’s heads. They weren’t even using Outlook (they migrated shortly after I left). Lots of extremely talented and passionate people but so hard to get anything done. Hopefully it’s better now. It probably feels different if you’re right in there doing a job you love (I spent 8 years in a department I swore I’d never go to because the work was amazing).

Gubbins thanks. oh dear- that was a bit my impression.

Well you could enter it as it would be a good opportunity to develop your schools and then try get a transfer to another department?

As I believe a lot of new departments are being created afer brexit anyway?

That was for @BogDiscuits.

@wizzywig I have found them really accommodating for those with children. I am able to work flexibly as long as I do my contracted hours each week

@BogDiscuits I would avoid that dept at the moment. It is in a right mess after having made 600 staff redundant last year, hence losing a wealth of knowledge and experience. It had been a toxic environment for a while. Plus it is not such an interesting place to work as it once was as so much policy work now lies with NHS England following Lansley's chaotic reforms.

Thank you Siwel and Feckless really appreciate your input.

Not sure how to watch this thread without commenting (on mobile) - but hopeful to get into the fast stream after my masters so enjoying your advice for the future!

Feckless I agree about reforms.. and not great if NHS England are taking on a lot of the policy development. They get through staff like it’s going out of fashion.

I know arguement im dying to ask questions in relation to the particular roles ive applied for

I think in the past some less than competent people were promoted just to move them out of the department, but since the financial crisis there's been quite a clear out, so rare to see that now.

Agree that the move to SCS is stressful, for only about 10K more. I just don't need that level of stress. And I think everyone from about HEO and above would get more money in the private sector, I could definitely move into consultancy, but I don't want to.

Hours are long, we don't get paid overtime so can be working multiple times our contracted hours, with no pay, and a nightmare arranging childcare.

If any of you have questions then do chuck them our way

How likely is it that you'll be moved out of London on the fast stream, specifically the social research one? As far as I know the first two years are in one place and then you can get moved around - but is this likely in practice? Have horrible anxiety/autism like over-planning traits so just want to know what I'm letting myself in for.

Sorry to derail OP! I've tried to start other threads in the past but never got any replies.

@blueshoes big advantage of civil service is that it is so big and varied - you can swap departments and be working in completely different fields without quite the level of risk as if you had to swap employers. eg you're still with the same employer so you don't have to go back to two years of no employment protection. And if you are made redundant at some time in the future, redundancy compensation is based on your total years CS service, not just your service in your current department.

@BogDiscuits - DH has changed a huge amount since 2012, so I really wouldn’t go on views based on experience then. Although we did shrink considerably in 2016/17, what’s left is therefore the most high profile stuff - in my (policy) team literally the only things we do are PM or SofS priorities - we don’t have the staff to do nice but low profile stuff. Of course NHS England play a vital role, but we still set the overall strategic direction for the whole health and care system. How can it not be interesting working on £100 billion + of govt spend, in an area which is never out of the front pages? I’m personally leading on a major policy project (major headline stuff) with new money attached. If you have specific questions I’m happy for you to PM me (I’m a G6).