Thinking I'm getting ripped off but want to check if IBU

[adreamofspring]

We decided on a single storey extension for our semi.

Lovely neighbours came to us after planning permission and party wall agreement granted and said they were inspired to do an extension themselves..

This would mean a shared wall which one of our builders would make and the other party would pay half. This is all pretty standard. We informed our builder and adjusted our plans accordingly.
So far so normal.

Two weeks before our builder was about to start breaking ground our neighbour said that they would be breaking ground a week before us and that their builder would take care of the shared wall. This was before the party wall surveyor had been to assess the impact of their extension. I said that this really shouldn’t happen. I asked them to reconsider and ‘go by the book’.

They ignored and the builder broke ground anyway, their surveyor came the next day told them they really shouldn’t have done it but no one seemed to care much.

Here's the crux of my AIBU...This happened without any agreement/contract with us over how much we should pay next door's builder for our share of the wall.

We spoke to our builder and he agreed to recost our project and took £2000 off the price of our extension, which we could use to pay next door’s builder for the shared wall.

However, next door’s builder has sent us a bill for £4000 for half a wall (so in his opinion the whole thing cost £8000 - for a wall!)

I disputed and sent the bill to their party wall surveyor to get his professional view. He sent me some rough calculations and advised me that a fair price for half the cost of the wall would be £1900.

We informed next door’s builder of this but he is still insisting on us essentially paying an extra £2000 for the privilege of next door having an extension too.

So would IBU to pay him £2000 and no more? We have no contract with him, he broke ground before a party wall agreement was in place, he never consulted us, and he seems to be a rip off merchant.

Refuse to pay. Speak to your neighbours and show them your quotes. Also you have no contract so are not legally bound to pay.

Post in legal for advice?

nope

stupid them for not listening.

no contract, no obligation

you told them not to.

'I did tell you not to do this. Our quote for the wall would have had it come in at 4k. So you've cost yourselves a lot of extra money, which is really not our problem, and certainly not our responsibility to make good on when you didn't wait to discuss and form a contract. We are really sorry but £2k is what we have budgeted for the wall and that is that!'

And maybe make some mutterings about taking action on the ground breaking prior to party wall agreement.

What do the neighbours say?

YANBU. You warned them not to start, and you have an estimate for the work. Offer them the £1900.

BTW, you wouldn't be paying the builder, you'd be paying your neighbour.

What did the party wall surveyor say?

You don't owe them anything.

Hi all. Thanks for your comments. Very reassuring. I just spoke to neighbour and they want to stay out of it - it’s between us and the builder in their view. I’ve just checked the Party wall agreement and it does say that if we can’t agree on a cost for the shared wall the surveyor can make the decision (I’m paraphrasing) so given the surveyor suggested £1900 I think that will have to be the amount. Not sure why a builder (who is surely more experience in this than me) would not understand that that is how it works. Thanks again for all your comments. Was beginning to think I was going mad.

Less than impressed by your neighbour. It is their builder and their project that has caused the issue. They employed him and if they didnt know the cost of the party wall, more fool them. Surely?

Agree generally with what has been said above. In fact the builder needs to seek any additional funds from the neighbour not you as that is who he has a contract with, not you. Secondly before paying any money get the wall checked - if he is that much of a rip off merchant you want to make sure he has built it correctly, including foundations.

Don't assume all builders understand party wall agreements. They should, but they don't. It also isn't between you and their builder. It's your neighbour who has a contract with the builder. Not you.

I'd agree that you should get the wall checked. Also check it's actually in the right place.

Check in legal, but having spoken to DH (who knows about these things), not only should you not be paying for the wall, but your neighbour should now have to pay for YOUR party wall surveyor!

They had no right to go ahead they could have cost you extra money with your own builder just tell them they have cost you money by not listening or waiting and you won’t be paying them a penny

Oh no no no no no.

'Sorry builder, we are not employing you and have no contract with you at all. If you have an issue with any aspect of the job that Neighbour is employing you to complete, please refer to them. If it involves us, then please ask Neighbour to discuss with us in their position as the homeowners'

'Sorry neighbour, we have no intention of becoming involved in any dispute with your builders over aspects of your contract with them. They are not employed by us, we have no contract with them and absolutely no obligation to discuss anything with them. If you remember we did urge you to wait re the shared wall in order for uas to establish that relationship, but it's too late now. We'll discuss the issue with you as homeowners; we absolutely will not enter into any discussion with a builder we're not employing ourselves. Sorry but what your builder is getting paid for your build really is your problem to sort.'

And look into jaxhog's suggestion that now you don't have to pay anything!

Idiots...

I just spoke to neighbour and they want to stay out of it

-there is no 'it'. The stupid builder went ahead on their project and did something stupid. It's nothing to do with you. You aren't employing them.

it’s between us and the builder in their view

Well their view is wrong and I suggest that you demonstrate that to them by doing fuck all about it! No, we don't have to talk to any builders about their decisions on someone else's land on someone else's job.

Just shrug and say to builder, speak to your employers. Who know that we advised them to tell you not to do this.

start keeping some really good notes of all interaction and discussions you have both with your neighbour, the builder and surveyors.

write notes from the previous conversations with dates and times and do it asap whilst its all still fresh in your mind and keep any correspondence between the parties.

from now on, stop verbal discussions and start putting things in writing. this has the massive potential to become a neighbour dispute with all the ramifications for your enjoyment of the property.

I would pull together a long time line letter stating exactly how this all came about with dates etc. at the end be very clear - you did not agree to the work, you do not have a contract with the builder to do the work and you will not pay more than the surveyors estimate of £1,900. Any shortfall on this amount to the builder needs to be paid by the neighbour - the person who contracturally employed him and not you. don't budge from this figure. Send a copy of this letter to both your neighbour the builder and your surveyor.

any thing that arises after you sent it, even an over the fence discussion, note it down with dates and times. this could well end up in court and you need to collect as much evidence now as you can in case it does.

This is all fabulous advice. Thank you so much for taking the time to post. Neighbours are elderly and we were also worried that this builder might try ripping them off too but, as your comments have made me realise, it’s not my problem. I’m now thinking I will cease contact with the builder and draft the letter suggested by mummy