To think that ‘gentle parenting’....

[Balthazarsbonnet]

Is completley ridiculous?

I have a friend with a child the same age as mine (3). I like and value this friend, and shes had quite a shit life, with some turbulent times recently. Shes not with her sons dad anymore.

We had children at the same time, and i always felt very affectionate towards her little boy. But recently, his behaviour has behaviour has been appalling.

He doesnt listen to anything, hits btes and kicks other children; has insane ridiculous tantrums that go on for hours. My friends response to this is to indulge him as much as she can, never tell him off, and let him decide what to do. For example, if my child picks up one of his toys, he will come over, snatch it and push my kid over. My friends response is to tell him: dont worry, you dont have to share anything, as her philsophy is ‘well adults dont have to share’. She believes that telling him off would ‘damage his self esteem’ and that he’s ‘not being naughty, just expressing himself’

Its got so bad her ds’ nursery have had to have a word with her about his behaviour, saying that he is hurting other children and doesnt listen to anything. Her response to this is to get annoyed that hes being told off, and to refuse to accept there is a problem.

I have experience in child health, and i dont think he’s autistic, or another disgnosis that would explain the situation. Its just her ‘gentle’ approach that is stunting his sense of empathy, discipline and self regulation.

In a deprived area, i feel you would this neglect. However, because shes middle class and is ‘gentley parenting’ its fine. I worry what will become of him, and i can fully imagine that as soon as school raise any issues, she will pull him outand home school him.

AIBU to wonder who came up with this gentle parenting bullshit, and wonder what they were smoking?!

Permissive parenting can be downright dangerous. It's not good for children as boundaries enable children to feel and looked after.

I don't understand people saying adults never have to share - what?

Adults have to share often, just not usually toys! Most people in a relationship will share frequently (laptops, books, newspapers, food, blankets etc etc) and it's a very important part of being a developed person, to be able to share what you have with others. Teenagers often have to share games consoles and ipads, even cars. How can someone think a child can just get away with not sharing forever? Will end up being very unpleasant to be around.

I’d describe my parenting style as gentle parenting, but with a rod of steel at the core

Same here. I have high expectations of behaviour.

My kids have never been punished, either at home or at school.

Op, I know from experience that this is hard work for you. I had a friend who parented like yours and we no longer speak as play dates continually a disaster and my dds toys etc got broken and she sat there telling me he was a kinesthetic learner or expressing himself my advice.... Run run for the hills you'll feel much better for it

Well she's going to be having fun by the time he's 14...

it’s normal for toddlers to hit and bite, normal for preschoolers not to want to share

It is really normal for todlers to hit and bite though so I expect them to do it in advance and dont feel annoyed with them when they do something that they are basically supposed to be doing because of their age.
So when 3 year old (shes grown out of it naturally now) used to hit or bite she wouldnt be shouted at or put on the naughty step or even told off but I would remove her from the situation, (apologise to other child/parent on her behalf) take her somewhere calm to sit with me and remind her that we dont hit and why, kindly though as if I am helping her out and giving her advice rather than telling her off.

Well thats going to come back and bite her in the bottom.

I think it's ops mate that's confused.
We have one at school now (secondary). He's greedy, won't do group work, doesn't care about consequences and doesn't respect authority at all. Apparently parents evening was something. Mum getting told same thing over and over and her saying "well, we don't agree with punishment or consequences."

That's not parenting at all. She'll still be making excuses for him when he's in and out of prison in 20 years.

I made a mum friend like that...our friendship didn’t last long.

Sounds like a nightmare! I'm gentle but firm. I do encourage sharing. I don't really buy the whole ’adults aren't made to share’, there are plenty of times adults share to be kind and inclusive. I wouldn't open a box of chocolates in front of friends and colleagues and not offer them around, or if it was raining and I was walking with a friend, i’d share my brolly. Also I see sharing as teaching my child multiple skills, like patience (waiting for their turn) and consideration of others. Sharing extends to developing a sharing attitude which may not always be a material thing but could be sharing the chores with a partner for example. I make an exception for special toys - like his bear he sleeps with every night but that's because its more than just a toy, it's a security blanket that makes him feel safe and comforted.

Those who say their dcs have never been punished, can I ask how? I have a 2yo who's going through the normal tantrumming, hitting, pushing etc and time out is the only thing I've found to really help. It's not done in anger and once it's finished we move on to being fun again, but dc simply won't listen to talking in the first instance.

BogstandardBelle - I always distracted them from bad behaviour

Then how do they learn to stop themselves, when you're not around to distract them? E.g. in school. Where they will be told off for bad behaviour.

Those who say their dcs have never been punished, can I ask how? I have a 2yo who's going through the normal tantrumming, hitting, pushing etc and time out is the only thing I've found to really help. It's not done in anger and once it's finished we move on to being fun again, but dc simply won't listen to talking in the first instance

Absolutely nothing to do with my parenting. Just had a very placed child who never hit etc. There was never a need to punish but we always talked in advance about what was good choices.

That’s not gentle parenting, that’s shit parenting! I remember the kids from toddlers who were ‘parented’ like this, their teenage years involved police and ‘outside agencies’ and their parents still being in denial. The best thing you can do for you and your children is to avoid this loon like the plague.

My friend does the distraction thing as well! I never did, and now my 3 year old will stop doing something if I tell her to without a fuss, will accept ‘no you can’t have more chocolate’ the first time.

My friends son, well, see above.

Gentle parenting is fine - it’s what I do. I certainly would not allow my children to physically hurt others or not share - that’s something else!

I actually saw a bloody exceptional piece of parenting today at the dentist - a 2/3 year old was screaming as he wanted something and wouldn't say please. The mother was not at all flustered, as cool as a cucumber, casually said "sorry everyone" to all the people in the waiting room and reiterated a few times that if he said please he could have it. He wouldn't so he didn't get it and they left. She had a 5 month old baby with her and she was SO COOL AND CALM and totally stuck to her guns despite the epic trantrum, and I really thought "good for her". I am sure her son will learn very quickly that she doesn't mess around and she means what she says!

The labels aren't always very helpful. What's "normal" varies from person to person. It sounds as if her experience - her "normal" - has been very different from your. And as far as I know no-one has a trademark on the word "gentle".

Given what has been going on in both their lives I am not surprised that her DS is behaving badly and I am not surprised that she is feeling very defensive about both her child and her parenting and that she is taking things to extremes. Choosing this approach to parenting may be her over-response to the dififculties she and her DS have both faced so far.

Its just her ‘gentle’ approach that is stunting his sense of empathy, discipline and self regulation.

That is a truly shit thing to say about someone who is supposed to be your friend. No, it is not her gentle approach that is causing all these problems. He may not have SN (and actually you can't know that for sure, experience or not) but you listed a whole bunch of other contributing issues. Sure, her parenting may not be making matters any better right now but it is most unlikely to be the only thing going on.

That is a truly shit thing to say about someone who is supposed to be your friend

The thing is though, the situation OP finds herself in is truly shit, awkward as fuck and frustrating. Especially if the child’s behaviour is impacting negatively on the people around them. As I said above, I find myself in a similar situation regularly and quite honestly it’s becomming impossible and I foresee that we won’t be spending any more time with them in the near future.

It’s true that there is likely other influences at play however, it needs to be addressed before it gets worse. It’s worh noting too that in my profession I’ve seen behavioural problems that can be attributed to all sorts but also where parents have been very misguided and just fucked it up. It’s interesting what a PP said about how we’d be shouting about neglect and crap parenting if this were an under-privileged family but because theyre not, it’s an ‘edgy’ label of ‘gentle prenting’. I’ve often wondered about the same myself.

Her approach is not helping her DS make sense of the world all the same TheWrongTrousers, and she is failing in one of her main parenting areas therefore.

Children are trying to figure out where they stand at age 2-3-4-5, and they need to know who is in charge. It is frightening to them (for want of a better word) that they are in charge.

I can understand if her exH was a harsh father, angry with everyone all the time, etc., that she wants to show the DS another way, maybe heal him from experiences of rage from his father that he should not have been exposed to. But I suspect she has swung too far in another direction.

It is also possible after an experience with a shouty, angry parent who has also been aggressive with the mother, that the DS does not recognise his mother as the person in charge. All the more reason to be assertive here and to make her presence and her authority felt.

If she is going to do gentle parenting after an experience of a harsh/angry/loud adult in a household, she needs to intervene every time she sees unacceptable behaviour (to quote Supernanny, sorry) pick up her DS saying 'No, we don't hit/bite/snatch', in a calm voice. If a tantrum ensues, she needs to continue to hold him somehow, and to speak to him as he calms down asking if he is ready to join the game again. It will take a lot of very hard work on her part, for many months, to establish herself as the person in charge.

And her DS needs that feeling of security above all else.

He needs to be able to trust the adult to respond appropriately and adequately to his cues.

She is not responding appropriately or adequately.

could her wanting just to please her little one all the time be something to do with her ow past.just wanting him to be happy and appeased all the time because of her own troubles?

the trouble is we need to see strength parenting in our parents.we need to see they can catch us and wont fall no matter what life or us pushes on them.so the strictness or them sticking to their guns is essentials.we are new to the world we need to be shown boundaries to feel safe. our parents are the people(mostly) that we show our worst selves to the only ones we can ever fully let go to because we no they have us.they will keep us safe. so not having rules or letting us run riat actually just make us feel worse and behaviour more and more out of control because we feel it.we don't feel contained.

If you can call it parenting at all (debatable), it is wishy washy and inadequate.