To wonder how transpennine express are getting away with this?

[InspirationUnavailable]

Apologies if a thread has already been started on this subject but Aibu to bring your attention to the recent actions of TPE in introducing trains running on a third of services on one route that will be completely inaccessible to wheelchair users and ask how they are getting away with this?

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jun/03/unions-criticise-lack-of-wheelchair-access-on-major-train-route

The 45 year old trains are going to be temporarily introduced this summer on the Liverpool to Scarborough line meaning that - at least between York and Scarborough - wheelchair users will be completely excluded from a third of all services, with TPE only providing an alternative if two consecutive trains are inaccessible. For some parts of the route that means people could be left waiting two hours for either an accessible train or an alternative!

It is just so blatantly discriminatory that even as a temporary measure I cannot believe they are allowed to get away with it?

It sounds, from the article, as though use of these inaccessible carriages is not so much a Transpennine decision as a requirement foisted on them by the DoT.

I thought these were two extra trains to the current service, and temporary until their new fleet arrives in the Autumn?

I think all trains should be accessible but it would be daft to pay to upgrade or replace these two ancient trains surely, when there are already replacements in the pipeline.

Yes it was forced on them by the government.

Forced on by the government, necessary to run the full service elsewhere, provides additional capacity for the 99% of people who don't require wheelchair access and enables staff to train on the locomotives that will be powering the new coaches.

Apologies, I’ll transfer my ire about this to the government - we have such a terrible service where we are I am perhaps unfairly quick to blame TPE for all train issues.

I thought this was going to be about their recent diabolical timetable changes and was getting ready to pile in with my complaints.

I wonder if more people might take an interest when they cotton on that it's going to be rather difficult to get their buggies/prams onto inaccessible trains....

yanbu at all for being concerned about this.

Sorry, just realised my post could be misunderstood. My was about TPE and their ridiculous timetable, not about your post. YANBU at all to be concerned about this - though (for once) it looks like it's not directly TPE's fault.

Yes they did say there wouldn't be room for pushchairs or bikes either.

But they are additional to the current, fully accessible service and they're guaranteeing that two inaccessible trains won't run concurrently (or they'll pay for a taxi to your destination).

Don’t even get me started on the timetable changes!

I’ve had a look at the timetable booklet and as far as I can tell the additional service seems to consist of two extra trains on a Saturday (presumable for extra tourist traffic). Even with the extra trains there are still periods of up to two hours where wheelchair users/cyclists/parents with plans will be left without accessible transport.

This is just the most recent in the long line of failing affecting northern rail services that have gone unreported in the national press up until now when we all know the problems with thameslink/southern.

Sorry not will be left - could be left without a train.

Chris Grayling should be sacked. He has been an abysmal Transport Secretary, even amongst some fairly awful ones over the last 50 years.

The poster who mentioned buggies and prams remind us that accessibility is not just about people in wheelchairs. Those on crutches often short term, which could be any of us. Older people who find steps difficult.

OP, I totally agree, though Andy Burnham has been doing a good job of bringing the shambolic situation with Northern Rail to the media's attention, making the same point you do about how much more coverage rail problems in the SE get in the press.

From what I've read, the country has had a dire shortage of carriages for quite a while. It takes many years to get new railways carriages built (there isn't a huge manufacturing capacity and carriages need to meet individual countries' standards so there isn't a big warehouse full of them, we can't just get them from other countries, etc.). There's been a backlog of orders for over a decade. So the franchises have been required to bring back older stock and swap carriages around to "balance" out the impact of a lack of appropriate stock.

Without the older stock the up-to-date carriages would be bursting at the seams (even more than they currently are) as there would be no more up-to-date carriages making the trips currently run with the inadequate carriages. Everyone, including wheelchair users, cyclists and parents with buggies would only have the accessible services to choose from and it would be harder to get on those trains.

What seems to be unreasonable here is that while the inaccessible carriages are being brought in to improve service frequency now for those who can ride them, effort to make similar improvements now for those with disabilities seems to be nonexistent. Would it be unreasonable for them to lay on taxis for wheelchair users for any of the inaccessible trains instead of only when there are two inaccessible trains on the trot?

This is a genuine (if perhaps slightly goady) question but the train carriages in use in Yorkshire are dire - northern runs almost 100 pacers and transpennine trains are hardly up to date as it is - but is this the case across the country or is it another case of newer stock gravitating to the SE?

It just strikes me that this isn’t a situation commuter trains going into London would be contending with.

The increased frequency also seems to be a red herring - as far as I can tell there are not going to be 12 new services a day in summer.

If I understand what's been happening properly, increased frequency isn't just for Transpennine. They may have been required to shunt other carriages to other franchises to spread things around so the increased frequency is over the network as a whole. It may also be that the older carriages are brought in while they are updating some aspects of some of the rolling stock they normally use to get to full compliance by 2020.

I don't know about now, but the SE was running some very old stock a couple of years ago when I lived there. At least one franchise was still running some of those old carriages with the compartments. There was also newer stock too, though. But London is hardly a paradise for wheelchair users - the London Underground has very few accessible stations.

It may be that SE franchises have priority on new stock. That could be for all sorts of reasons - e.g. they ordered it first or northern franchises went for older trains for longer to keep fares lower for their commuters than they would otherwise be. Or it may be because some central government department calculates it's how to maximize meeting capacity demands or, more cynically and I think fairly unlikely, all the civil servants picked their commuter lines first.

It does suck though. YANBU to be pissed off that rail companies still aren't there. It's ridiculous that new carriages didn't have to be wheelchair accessible before 1998, that we've waited so long to prioritize it, that so few stations have step-free access and that funding for improvements is so low..

The poster who mentioned buggies and prams remind us that accessibility is not just about people in wheelchairs.

It also reminds us that out of sight out of mind is still a viable policy for many people when it comes to the disabled and indeed women. Anyone who has tried to view a new build property in a wheelchair knows this.

It also reminds us that out of sight out of mind is still a viable policy for many people when it comes to the disabled and indeed women.

So very true. Although it would appear from this thread that when it’s for the “greater good” it is fine for women and disabled people to not be accounted for.

Inspiration. I have no idea how authoritative the author of this article on the norther railway mess is, but the website, CityMetric, is normally pretty good. He gives a thorough run down of the total lack of investment in rail in the north by central government for decades. It does look as though things are on the up, though it’s way later than it should be.

Those trains are actually really nice for most passengers though. Much more comfortable than the normal TP trains. I'm conflicted.

Those trains are actually really nice for most passengers though. Much more comfortable than the normal TP trains.

Well in todays world of social media, maybe tweeting a picture of how nice they are will help wheelchair users get over it a bit better ?

Personally I think stairs are woefully underrated anyway. Luckily modern architects agree with me, so we should be seeing a lot less wheelchair users in future. Especially if they use buses ....

Maybe we could assist wheelchair users and prams and buggies onto the trains during this time, rather than just trying to appear to be fighting their corner.

Interesting article @BoomBoomsCousin, thanks for posting.

I was on a TPE train on Sunday between Manchester and Birmingham - it was the service to Bournemouth. For no reason at att it terminated at Birmingham new st and we all had to get off and change trains. Cue a bundle to get on.

There was a woman in a wheelchair patiently waiting for the guard to bring the ramp and then he announced to her that because there was already ONE person in a wheelchair on the train she would have to wait until the next train.

In an hour.

And she hadn’t even chosen to get on there - we had been removed from the previous train.

Absolutely shocking.