To sack my builder

[SpoilsburyToastGirl]

I'm sorry, I know this is boring as hell but I need your advice. Back in February I hired a builder to do a small kitchen extension. He seemed great, his quote was reasonable and he made himself available to talk through all of our plans. He is really likeable and I trusted him.

The date for beginning the project was supposed to be April, it's now June and he's been here a total of 2.5 days. He's aways got something else on (he has other jobs - one is at the other end of the country and his OH lives hours away too) or some issue that means he's not available. The house is a total mess with stuff stored every where to make room for this non-existant building work. So far he's dug a hole in the garden to 'investigate the foundations' and built a small stud wall. He's also had plumbers in to fit a new boiler which took a couple of days. He's had £1700 for materials so far and has just requested £2500 to pay the plumber for the boiler (£1500) and fitting (£1000) which took two days.

I rang him today and he couldn't really give me assurances that he could actually find time to do the work, despite obviously saying otherwise back in February. I'm scared to let him to do any more now given that we need to open up the back of the house and can't do with that going on for months and months with him doing nothing.

Would IBU to sack him at this point and give him less to pay the plumbers given that the stud wall he built could have cost £700 max in labour and materials (had an almost identical one built last year by a different builder). He's been here 2.5 days in 8 weeks but I can't force him to come more often how the hell do people make builders do what they say they will?

That's rubbish and I think you're right to see how awful this could become if he continues to come sporadically and do dribs and drabs of work.

We've recently had a huge amount of building work done and we only paid at the points at which both us and the builder had equal ish amounts in the build iyswim? That was their suggestion, not ours and we did pay some of the the trades direct. So I think it's reasonable to pay him what you owe him and cut your losses. If you're anywhere near the west mids I can highly recommend our builders.

Hope you get your extension without loads of hassle.

did he come recommended? I'd be binning him for sure- piss taker

Without the new kitchen presumably you don't need the new boiler?

I would tell him you will pay him when the job is complete, including any third-party (e.g. plumber) fees. If he doesn't like it tell him he can take you to small claims court. I doubt he will bother.

Call him and say you need it finishing by x date or you will be arranging another builder and will give him the plumber money minus whatever you have already given him. Follow it up with a text message or email so it is in writing.

I would be looking for another builser he sounds ridiculous.

... and if he does you have a good case for not paying him.
You hired him to to a job, not part of a job!

He sounds so like my ex husband.
Please don't pay him anything more.
Have you any contact details for the plumber so you can sort out a direct payment with him?
Get rid of him, he's spinning you.
Report to trading standards.
Sorry you have this to go through this.

Tell him to jog on. No more money until job is complete

Why should OP pay the plumber? Her agreement was with the builder and it was he who hired the plumber.

Just sack him and write off the money you have already given him. The relationship will never recover. Give him a set time to collect his things.

Did you sign a contract?

He sounds awful - where are you op - SELondon?

I wouldn't pay the plumber direct let him chase the builder

Fire his ass and find someone ASAP.
I fired my builder as am renovating my flat. Right now he owes me money, but that's another story.
I went online to www.checkatrade.com and found someone.
What drew me to him was that he advertised his rates online, something others don't do.
I read the reviews, wrote him an email and from his response I knew he was the one so far.
As I am living abroad, I called him because he was starting to work on removing a water shut off valve. He was not able to take my call, but guess what I nearly fell off my chair when 15 minutes later he returned my call from the UK to my current location.
My niece is my project manager, but I am the one that converse with the builder.
I will email him before going to bed which is coming onto his night and by the time I am up the next day, his reply is waiting for me.
His professionalism is amazing.
I explained to him that I wanted the plumbing : dish washer, sink and washing machine pipes to run behind the cabinets. My kitchen plans were from Howdens. He took it upon himself to call up Howdens to ensure that this could be done.
So in a nutshell, read the reviews on check a trade, email the builder(s) and fo from there.
My only wish is that I had found him earlier, this would have saved me a lot of money.

Feaklikemeee only because that work is done and the boiler is in place (as I understood it) so a decent tradesman gets his due and the builder no longer has that leverage.

I understand how your logic works rosamacrose but that's not how sub contracting works.

We're in Yorkshire. This sounds really dodgy I admit but he is a friend of one of my employees. She knows him because he plays in band with her DH. They've known him for years and he's lovely apparently (he is to be fair) but that's not the same as being a reliable builder. We didn't get a contract per se (I know, I know) it's on a series of emails only.

I'm just worried to let this go any further because I can't see him getting any better. One of the problems is that we borrowed the money according to his quote so will be slightly under what we need to get someone else.

I feel bad about holding off paying the builder but there's no way I'm handing over £2500 when I've paid £1700 for a stud wall that I doubt I'll get any refund for. Do you think it'd be ok just to deduct the £1000 and give him £1500 and let him worry about paying the plumber?

strayducks point taken. :)

SpoilsburyToastGirl :
I had the same problem. He was a friend of my niece and I wish that I had never engaged in this fiasco and had called it quits earlier.
Do it now and save yourself more heartache and money for someone who knows what they are doing.
I was like you dilly dallying and guess what it cost me more and I may not even recoup that money.
check a trade, put in your post code and go from there.

Honestly, he's not going to get any better. Call him or send him a text saying, in a friendly but firm way:

"Look, your circumstances have obviously changed since you agreed to take on the job. Let's just be honest with each other. You don't want the job and I'm not happy with the progress. Shall we call it quits and stay civil? Now let's work out the true value of the work so far and see who owes who what."

Silver lining OP, he probably will never poo in your loo.

Hi OP

Your emails may actually form a contract themselves. They don't have to be a 'standard form' building contract. They just have to include offer, acceptance, consideration and the intention to create legal relations.

Effectively if you don't have pre agreed rates for specific items of work or didn't agree a daywork rate, you can determine the value if you are terminating the builder.

The builder could disagree with your terminating the work and with your valuation of the project to date. If he did, he would have to go to court. That takes time and costs money. If you make a reasonable fist out of the valuation, he will probably bugger off without too much fuss.

What did you decide to do OP