My parents unhygienic food practices

[sahknowme]

This is on behalf of my DH, as I'm used to it my parents eccentricities.

My parents seem to live in another world when it comes to food safety. They seem to be against refrigerating cooked meat. For example, they boiled a piece of preserved beef (a traditional dish), and left it on the counter overnight, warmed it up to a simmer then served it. They regularly leave joints of meat out on the counter for 2 to 3 days. Worst of all is the gravy which gets cooled to room temp, left overnight (on the counter), added to, reboiled, then cooled to room temp several times over the course of a week. They even do it to fish soup. We all have strong constitutions, so this doesn't affect us.

My DH is worried, because they serve food to their elderly parents, and to our 1 year old DS. He thinks I should have a word with them, but they are stuck in their ways and won't listen.

AIBU to let them do their own thing? Is this as bad as my DH suggests?

Sah, my family in Ireland do this too. Do they heat their house with a range? Because most houses where that is the case there isn't heating in the kitchen and if no range is in there it is cold. This is especially the case if it is an old house because the kitchens were kept cold deliberately to preserve food.

I've had turkey and beef left out in a kitchen like that for a few days and nobody in our family from toddlers right up to 80 has been ill effected. Your family have been doing it their whole lives without killing anybody so they know what they're doing.

Might seem odd to your DH as obviously would be very dangerous in India. But it's fine in Ireland. It's fucking cold and the central heating is frequently rubbish. Extremely common especially amongst the elderly in Ireland and I know plenty of Irish pensioners who did this and lived to be in their late 90s and got finished off by falls n strokes n shit. Never by a listeria sodden chicken leg.

Not just an Irish thing. My English DM always used to leave the leftover Sunday roast chicken overnight in a cupboard to use the next day.

One time they went on holiday (this would have been in the 80s) and I forgot about the chicken. A couple of days later I realised there was an iffy smell in the kitchen - opened the cupboard door and the carcass was swarming with maggots. Gross - the whole thing ended up on the compost heap and the local birds had a field day.

In the olden days people didn't have central heating and had pantries.

My DM frequently had a bad stomach and was a martyr to her "IBS" but also never washed her hands after using the toilet, never washed a cutting board in anything other than lukewarm water and shared plates with the cat. She also had various food safety certificates We took to eating out, bringing food over or inviting her round.

Once we met for a picnic and she couldn't be bothered to wait for a knife so ripped apart the bread and quiches with her bare hands. Which was enough but I'd just seen them being licked by the dog - which she'd then stroked just to add a bit of dog hair to the mix. So we all went hungry rather than eat the hairy dog saliva quiche and she went nuts.

I'm with your dh, no way would I let my dc eat this stuff, nor would I eat it myself. The bacteria that causes food doesn't know (or care) what culture you're from.

Fridges have been commonly used for a good 40 years, before then a lot of people didn't have central heating.

DGF has permastew in his slow cooker, the bottom 3 inches of which might have been there since I was 15, nearly 36 years ago. He's 96, so I think he must have built up an immunity! 😂

lljkk Flies, casual touching, airborne bacteria - the places the food is left aren't sterile, and though anything originally in the food will have been killed by cooking, that doesn't mean levels of bacteria will remain safe unless the food is kept at a temperature below which they can't grow, or not grow too much. Gravy re-boiled should be OK, but toxins left by bacteria are not always destroyed by cooking. I don't believe in being over-fastidious, but this kind of food hygiene is dangerous, especially for children. Why take the risk?

@jasperoonicle -thanks for setting me right. I had no idea Eire is a derogatory term. If anything, I thought it was the opposite. If you'd like to give me some background on this, I'd appreciate it.

I think my ex mil's roasting pan behaviour was an offshoot of the age old custom of feeding the farm cats and dogs on scraps. She'd just taken it in a slightly different direction.

I also think it's not an Irish thing but an olden day's thing. My English mum would leave the Sunday roast out on the side after dinner, often overnight and not covered. God knows why, we had a large fridge. I understand needing to cool it before putting it in the fridge but it wasn't half an ox, needing 24 hours to cool down.

My first home, after marriage had a built in larder with a concrete slab to keep food cool. The house was built in the seventies, only 10 years old. We sourced our first fridge from the curb side where a neighbour had thrown it out. Better than nothing, which is what we had for months. Well that and the concrete slab.

Plenty of people with 'strong constitutions' are also surprised to find that stomach cramps and loose stools aren't normal bowel habits.

YABU OP you eat it if you like but do not give it to your 1yr old!

DP isn’t great with food hygiene either. He’ll bring back a load of shopping and not put stuff in the fridge if we’re eating it later, even if it’s summer and we won’t be eating it for hours. Or he’ll open a pack of sliced meat, and think it’s ok to finish off a week later, because it hasn’t passed the use by, and has been in the fridge. He’s also not great with raw chicken - guidelines are to cut it up with scissors straight into the pan, and he uses a knife that can’t go in the dishwasher and sometimes the wooden chopping board, rather than the plastic ones that can go straight in the dishwasher. If he then washed them in very hot water, it wouldn’t be so bad, but half the time he leaves them sitting on the side til he gets round to it, and uses lukewarm water. I am quite strict about chicken so we fall out about it sometimes.

Jasperoonicle my DH is from RoI and I’ve just asked him why Eire is a derogatory comment and he said it’s not....I’m not sure if its’old school’ thinking but he can’t/won’t elaborate why it is or isn’t. Why is it derogatory??

It's truly awful and could definitely pose a health threat but why can't your husband have a word with them himself?

Your DS could catch a serious bacterial infection from eating there so I think that it's important but that it needs to come from your DH if you're going to avoid a fall-out.

Also just to add that children can die from E-coli and even salmonella.

Elspeth OP is talking about her own parents.

Surely any conversation about food hygiene would be best coming from their daughter - OP - rather than from their son in law?

Never heard of a derogatory use of Eire - will ask my parents sometime!

My DH is from London, but with Indian heritage. This happened again in London (in the 25degree+ heat), though something happens whenever we stay with them in Ireland.

I had a bit of a falling out with DH because my parents were insisting on given DS some of the meat, even though I told them not to (I used another excuse to avoid a fight). He wasn't in the room, but could overhear. DS refused it anyway, and I do understand DH's point of view, but my parents are so stubborn.

I would not eat their food and certainly wouldn't feed it to my kids. I occasionally leave bolognese in the slow cooker and eat it the next day but our kitchen is very cold but bolognese is the only time I seem to do this.

Oh and maybe a pan of homemade veg soup may get left out but that's about it

I can assure you this is not a cultural thing from Ireland!!

I’ve never heard of someone leaving the actual trays out.

I do this and so do my local friends. We're on septic tanks and can't put any grease down the sink. Once the dogs and ants have cleaned them up, they go into the dishwasher.

I don't leave food out on the side though.

this helps to explain why using Eire could be seen as derogatory, but not by actual Irish people

It would be like Brits calling Switzerland Helvetia - using the country's own language to name the country, rather than the Anglicised version of the name. While this might not seem derogatory to us, if Irish people consider it to be so, then we should take note of that.

I use ROI instead - I assume that's ok as it's used in adverts and on labels and stuff but happy to be educated if it's not.

There is nothing wrong or derogatory about using Eire, as an Irish person I use it and so do lots of my Irish friends, it is just another name. If anything it is used with pride, a more traditional name for sure but since when and according to who is it an insult?

The food thing, if it makes you uncomfortable can you politely refuse, forever? It is awkward as people show love and nurturing through the offering of food. Tricky.

Cheery - if you read the link I posted, it suggests that non-Irish people using Eire could be seen as derogatory, nothing wrong with Irish people using it as it is their/your own language.

The worst food poisoning I have ever had in my life (and I'm the first to admit I do play rather fast and loose with food hygiene at times) was as a result of eating reheated rice at a friend's lunch party. Pardon the hyperbole, but I actually thought I was going to die: I've never been so ill, before or since - and to put this into perspective, I once contracted amoebic dysentry.

As a result, although I'm happy to weigh up the odds when it comes to eating the odd slightly 'dodgy' thing (am veggie, so mostly a case of wondering about much more yoghurty yoghurt can get before it is a BAD THING), I am meticulous when it comes to ensuring others' wellbeing when I cook or serve food.

I wouldn't take the risk, personally, especially when you're considering very young children with immature gut flora.

Thumbs witch I have yet to meet or hear of an Irish person who personally gives a flying F about anyone using Eire, thanks for letting me know. Sort of shocked that anyone can be bothered to find insult with this, but so it is.

What do you think people did before fridges

Died young of avoidable food poisoning - yep!

Lived in uninsulated houses without gas ch and triple glazed Windows too!

I'm not that old and grew up in houses where there was ice on the inside of the single glazed Windows of a winter.

Houses are MUCH warmer now, and with less air circulation too.

"Before people had fridges, they used cool larders with stone or slate shelves to store food, and water-soaked containers for milk bottles etc. They didn't just leave everything out in a warm kitchen." This too

Ah, so you come from a cold country that doesn't often experience high temps that ALSO has in its heritage cold storage that isn't necessarily a fridge/freezer, whereas he comes from a heritage with hot weather where food poisoning is frequently fatal. So there is a bit of a cultural divide. But also he's just up to date with modern food safety knowledge. Which is based on eg kitchens in uk European houses being much warmer than in the past.

Honestly, I wouldn't eat anything you or they had made with such a lax attitude- and I'm veggie! So pretty hard to give me food poisoning. DEFINITELY wouldn't allow anyone vulnerable (baby, elderly, pregnant, immuno-compromised) eat there either. Recipe for disaster!!

Your sons health, LIFE are more important than your parents feelings. I'm 100% with your dh here.

There is a long history of 'Eire' being used in a derogatory way, Cheerymom.

In the early days of Irish independence, British broadcasters used to make a dog's dinner of the pronunciation of 'Eire' ('eerie', airy', etc) with the implication that Irish was a language impossible to wrap your tongue around, and Ireland and the Irish were foreign to the point of being completely alien, with their weird language.

Eire was the name for Ireland they insisted on using because 'Ireland' to them implied the entire island was a single political entity, and that was politically unacceptable to the BBC. The name Ireland was not used even though that name for the state would have been far easier to pronounce.

I have never heard an Irish person use Eire as a term meaning Ireland.