To think thousands of people are getting shafted by the benefit system/ the government?

[NotLeanButMean]

I've had two pretty major cock ups this year, one with tax credits and one with housing benefit. I've been accused of not informing them of my new job (I did on my very first day), I've been told I am earning over double the amount I actually am (after sending multiple payslips), I've been told I stopped working over 16 hours a week for months (I didn't, I have worked in the same job, with the same hours for the past year). I also work for the NHS, so you would assume it would be even more simple to check the facts.

Anyway, in both cases, I've been told I could appeal but it would take up to 9 months. In both cases, due to the non payments, I've been faced with losing my (rented) home and had massive debts build up. I was so close to a breakdown on both occasions (diagnosed GAD). I can't really explain how this has affected me, my mental health and my grades.

I work 3 days a week, I go to university full time and I am a single parent to a toddler at 23. I wish I wasn't dependent on the benefit system, and so hope that when I graduate (next week!), I won't need to be anymore. I obviously didn't plan to be a single parent, I was a victim of abuse and made homeless whilst pregnant with no qualifications, and I feel I've done pretty well in the past couple of years to work to be a contributor to the 'pot' one day. But as it stands, my wages and my student loan are nowhere near enough to pay even my rent and nursery fees, let alone anything else. I know we are absolutely lucky to have a benefit system in our country, and I'm grateful for it. But if the government are going to allow wages to be so low and rent/ childcare to be so high, it's vital that it we have it, and it runs well, and I don't think that's an entitled view

Both times, I have solved these issues eventually by researching and writing carefully worded letters to chief execs/ my MP/ the ombudsman. It has taken a lot of research of governmental policy and procedure (and actually, a lot of info that isn't available online but I've received from the wonderful people on this forum). In both cases, it was eventually admitted that I had done everything right, and they were to blame. Yet, if I didn't do this research and know to involve these people, me and my daughter would be homeless.

In the least facetious way, I'm lucky enough to be relatively well educated (as in - not Eton, I went to shitty schools but I got into uni), and know a little bit about how to find out who to contact if you want to be listened to (mainly from Mumsnet).

I was speaking to my DM about it this morning (who has absolutely no knowledge of the benefit system), and she said that it makes you think how many people are being told they owe £8000 (which was what tax credits told me), with no idea how to fight it, or get anyone to listen, and are going broke paying a debt they don't owe. Nobody who works for these offices will tell you any other way except - wait 9 months without payment and we'll see. Nobody will tell you there's a special department for vulnerable people where it's likely you'll receive some form of payment to live on until then (found that out on Mumsnet, which saved our skin until it was sorted). Nobody will listen until you contact a higher being, but not many people would think to do this IMO.

AIBU to think it's absolutely shocking that it's likely that such a large proportion of society are being told by the government that they owe money that they don't, and they don't even know it? Or if they do know it, have no idea how to fight it? I know from MN, and from my peer group, that my case isn't isolated.

I'm so relieved today after receiving an email from the council this morning after a three month fight with no housing benefit and threatening letters through my door from them saying I owe £2000 - pretty much saying we're human and mistakes happen, you're right and we'll give you the £1500 on Monday that you've missed and your payments will be reinstated. I've been inconsolable with anxiety for weeks about missing my rent (due Monday!)

I feel like dancing, I'm over the moon but am thinking about all the people who don't have the fight in them, or the knowledge to do the same. And actually, if you've been lucky enough not to have dealt with the benefits system, you have no fucking idea how hard it is just to navigate these lies they tell.

Sorry, that was long

YANBU

We're paying back a 2k ''debt'' to housing ben. We sent our figures in every year as requested (DH self.emp) - but somehow they got their sums wrong apparently ...

Wouldn't have the first clue how to argue the case. We've been paying £50 a month back for the last 8 months. sigh.

Glad it's sorting, albeit slowly

Yanbu

This is nothing new though.

Every year the government gets a slapped wrist for the level of error (and fraud) in benefits. Most of it is error and usually on the part of government.

It’s is overly complicated. I reckon it would be cheaper to throw means testing out and just give a flat universal income.

The benefits system is a mess, people who should get help dont, and some people get away with murder, when i was single and on housing benefit i did two days overtime of 14 hours, minimum wage, and when i put in my payslips a few weeks later got a letter saying i owed them £1000 in over payments i would love a job which pays that sort of money luckily on fighting it because like you i know what to do i won and they reduced it to £200

I had similar, years back when I was on HB. Random letter out of the blue (no circumstances changed AT ALL for years) saying that I owed them some random amount.

Rang them up to query it and basically got 'you definitely owe it, we can't tell you why or what happened, but you definitely owe it and you have to pay by next week.' A line they stuck totally to. I asked for statements to show how the alleged 'overpayment' had been arrived at (received the same amount both before and after this letter). They couldn't, didn't or wouldn't. Just kept saying I definitely owed it and had to pay it.

In the end I borrowed the money and paid. But I still have no idea how or why I owed them money. It seemed to cynical me that they'd discovered a shortfall of money somewhere and just decided to hit up a few claimants to get it back. Very soon afterwards I stopped claiming - even though I am technically still entitled to a few pounds a week, I don't claim that because I can't live in fear of one of those letters again, telling me I've been overpaid more than I've ever claimed.

zaphod same here. No one we ever managed to get through to on the phone could explain how or why we'd been overpaid.

We were told we could pay in small amounts. Have since discovered we could have asked to pay over an even longer term - but to be honest we just want it out of the way. Never claiming anything again.

It's an absolute disgrace. If I was able to just let it lie, still be able to pay my bills without it and pay back £20 a month or whatever I would have done. It's taken so much out of me. The only reason I forced myself to keep fighting was because we would absolutely be living in a hostel, with me out of work/ uni as I couldn't pay nursery fees. I would have absolutely just paid them until the end of forever if it wasn't because without their payments, we'd be facing that. I don't know if it's a conspiracy, or if it's just that people are making the most ridiculous errors (though I'm tempted to believe the former, due to their absolute dispassion at even attempting to help you). Either way, it's awful, and will be affecting so many people in such a devastating way. This is absolutely peoples' lives they're playing with. Our lives would have been ruined if I just took them at their word.

God I'm with you.

I had to claim for universal credit 11 weeks ago. I have received one payment in that time, almost £1K LESS than it should have been. It hasn't been resolved. They have now agreed my next payment will be correct and "a decision maker" will let me know when I can expect the back payment but I have fought so so so hard just to get this far, including writing to my MP. I just constantly thought that those who are most vulnerable in society - those with poor English, or mental health issues, they couldn't have fought it like I did and would have accepted it.

HMRC have now written to me to say I somehow owe them £450 from old payments. I don't have the energy to fight this. It's not thousands, I'm just going to pay it. I can't keep fighting against incompetent departments who pass you through to 100 people.

I just constantly thought that those who are most vulnerable in society - those with poor English, or mental health issues, they couldn't have fought it like I did and would have accepted it.

This said it more eloquently than I did. Those are my thoughts right now.

As I finish uni next week, I'm going to be entitled to around £110 extra a week housing benefit (according to entitledto) from Wednesday. I'm really going to struggle without my student loan, but with that, I'd just about break even after rent/ bills/ childcare/ food. I'm desperately applying for good jobs whilst writing a gazillion words for my final assignments, so I can get out of this shit storm. But, I know it'll take months if not years before they change my claim to reflect that I don't get student finance anymore (though I'm sure I'll get a letter on Thursday about how I now have to pay bloody council tax due to me not being a student - they're v efficient when it comes to you paying them). Until then, I'm screwed. I'll hopefully probably be 40, a CEO, married, a homeowner and have 4 kids by the time they eventually recalculate my claim.

Totally agree. My job is helping people negotiate the benefit system and advocate for them but it is all so frustrating ! I find it complex and hard going let alone people who are very ill/ have learning difficulties and mental health issues. I have had a case recently of people going through major surgery and lose their job then be hit by a massive overpayment and be living off £35 a week for a couple and child, it can be horrendous just when you are at your lowest. The longer term disability benefits are not appropriate for every ill person and take ages to be put in place anyway. As others have said some people seem to get loads of money and others get awarded nothing,. Some know exactly how to play the system.

It's completely ridiculous. HB shafted me to the tune of £1200 too; I told them I'll pay it back at £25 a month. I don't care if it takes years, I refuse to be out under pressure for their fuck up.

I’ve had letters from tax credits in the past and somehow owe more money than I’ve ever received and had payments reduced to compensate! I’ve just ignored these letters and now receive nothing at all. I’m expecting a letter soon chasing this up. They’re totally crap!!

Totally agree. My job is helping people negotiate the benefit system and advocate for them but it is all so frustrating !

God, I couldn't even imagine how frustrating it must be as a job. to you. The CAB are unsung bloody heroes in my eyes.

Or similar, obviously, if you don't work for the CAB. To deal with this sorts of stuff for 8+ hours a day. I take my hat off to you.

Yep. DS had a breakdown last year, was supposed to spend 13 weeks on ESA and then a decision would be made about which group to put him in. The decision means that either his money stays the same or is increased. He is severely disabled so the likelihood is that it should increase. 13 weeks was February. Still waiting. Only they've lost the forms, we have to start again which means of course, no back payment...

I was told that I had to pay the total amount upfront. I offered to pay £10 a week until it was cleared (and they refused, even though I told them it was illegal to refuse a reasonable offer of repayment). The level of incompetence, ignorance and sheer hostility took some believing! They even agreed when I said I'd have to take a payday loan to pay it off (I didn't, but I double checked, saying - with others listening on as witnesses) 'are you saying I should take a payday loan to pay this?' and the person saying I should do whatever it took and borrow the money to clear my 'debt'.

Horrifying. Truly horrifying.

I feel like this, actually, is a much more important and widespread issue than the disproportionate stories you read about people living it up on benefits - your stereotypical 'benefit claimant'.

It seems that ordinary people are getting fucked by the system, so much more than people taking advantage of it.

I guess it doesn't make such interesting headlines.

Zaphodsotherhead that is shocking. I wish there was something we could do to help. If I was in a position to volunteer for the CAB, I would. But I mean, on a more widespread level. I wonder if MNHQ would be interested in a campaign?

Probably wouldn't get anywhere though. Like a PP said, it seems it's been like this forever. And will likely just get worse and worse.

Yanbu my sister is £5k in debt for housing benefit and has learnt the hard way that you need to go into the office and physically hand over all your documentation and get it stamped to show you’ve done it everytime even if you have to take time off of work to do it. The burden of proof is on the claimant and it doesn’t matter how many times you’ve phoned, emailed or posted evidence. Not only that they make all their correspondence to you about your award utterly inpenetrable so you have to take it on Trust you’re only getting want you are supposed to get. If you can’t prove every contact you’ve had with them them you pay through the nose for their errors.

I've had two pretty major cock ups this year, one with tax credits and one with housing benefit. I've been accused of not informing them of my new job (I did on my very first day), I've been told I am earning over double the amount I actually am (after sending multiple payslips), I've been told I stopped working over 16 hours a week for months (I didn't, I have worked in the same job, with the same hours for the past year). I also work for the NHS, so you would assume it would be even more simple to check the facts.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with all this stress.

As someone living in an EU country where you need a simple ID card - like a bank card - to show when you do anything - get a new passport, house, job, school or uni registration, driving licence, social security, hospital - , I don't get the British still living in this kind of cloud of a mess....

Windrush scandal anyone?

Sorry OP, hope it works out for you!

I don't know about doing anything about HB, NotLean as that's individual to each council, but I agree something should be done about the tax credit fiasco. I've read so much on here about people randomly being asked to pay back more than they've been paid...

Surely there must be SOME WAY of making these payments transparent and accountable? Like being paid with a kind of 'pay slip' that you could check each month, so that it could be queried if it was wrong at any point? It's the fact that they seem to be claiming back money for months or even years, with no accountability.

From what I've read of universal credit, the idea is that your real time wages get automatically processed every month, and from there all of your benefits are decided and given out as a single payment.

Bloody brilliant. But I've read enough posts on here where the scheme has been rolled out, which are anything but.

You're absolutely right, it is staggering how incompetent they are. So glad to be done with all their malarkey but it's so sad the most vulnerable people are the ones who suffer most

Yanbu. It’s a horrible hidden scandal. And the people suffering are the least able to shout about it.
I only claimed tax credits for about a year, after leaving my abusive Ex. But I was horrified what an impossible, confusing, complicated, time consuming and difficult to use system it is. Requiring lengthy expensive phone calls and expensive photocopying at a time when I was homeless with two children. it was truly horrific to register and despite the fact I was totally honest, my circumstances are straightforward and my only income is PAYE salary, I still ended up with a £2k bill for over payments at the end. luckily my new partner helped pay it off, but it was a horrific and stressful time and I felt so vulnerable.

Ironically one part of my job is completing hugely complex SDLT returns for massive companies. These are so much easier to complete, there is clear easy to read guidance and the help lines are answered swiftly ....

I am so so cross that people are treated like this when at their most vulnerable. It feels like a poverty trap, like you get dragged further down!!