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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To get annoyed about Vegan friend putting slaughtered animals on Facebook?

75 replies

Faerie87 · 01/06/2018 08:20

I have been a vegetarian for going on 18 years now, started when I was in high school due to my own personal feelings about eating meat.

I would never call anyone out if they were to eat meat, my DP and family also eat meat and I have never had a problem with that.

I would have liked to go Vegan however I have never had the will power to do it, but I’m happy with my choice of diet and have never felt the need to judge anyone else for theirs.

I have a couple of Facebook friends who are vegan, who have been for a couple of years now, pretty sure they were meat eaters before that. They are constantly putting pictures up dipicting animal cruelty with captions such as cows milk is for baby cows not humans!

Is it unreasonable for me to want to stop following these people because it’s annoying and I don’t like seeing pictures like that? I am friends in RL with them and they are nice people but I have never been a fan of preaching.

Thanks

OP posts:
ScrubTheDecks · 01/06/2018 10:25

Many people subsistng on pre-industrial diets get vit B12 from the traces of insects in their food. Anyone who is ingesting unseen tiny insects in salads and raw veg etc is getting some Vit B12.

Also, as a 'converted adult', did you get B12 as a child, when you were growing and developing?

PeppaP · 01/06/2018 10:42

Oh I see! Thanks bowl

Bowlofbabelfish · 01/06/2018 11:10

You’d not get enough from non visible insect sources to survive. Not all insects can convert the precursors to form b12 and not all have the correct gut bacteria to do so either. Small non visible insects just wouldn’t be enough to sustain you.

Vegetarian diets have quite a long human history, certainly a couple of thousand years at least but veganism is a very recent thing. Obviously if you want to be vegan today it’s entirely possible - we have plenty of supplemental sources of b12. It’s probably a bit harder to get the range of nutrients you need but it’s certainly possible. But it wouldn’t have been previously. Humans have never been vegan up to now.

ScrubTheDecks · 01/06/2018 11:55

bowlofBabel : not S Indian populations? I thought there were some diets that were rice, dahl, dosai (rice and lentil or gram flour), veg, pulses but no animal products?

SophieWantsABlokeyBloke · 01/06/2018 12:03

Sorry personal feelings showing through. I just hate seeing pictures of animal cruelty, similar ones are when you see people who have injured a dog or a cat on purpose I get really angry and feel really bad for the animal

The only problem with the vegan ones is they ask you to give up part of your diet in order to stop the cruelty

Well that's a silly response. Of course you'd have to give up a part of your diet for it to stop.

OP, you're no better than a meat eater. The dairy industry is just as cruel. Separation of young from their mother's, male offspring being slaughtered... it all goes on.

I really don't see how being veggie is any more animal friendly than being a meat eater. Sorry.

You're either willing to be vegan and make the change or you're not.

I don't pay much attention to these animal videos because at least I face head on that my choice of diet is actually rather selfish.

I don't bury my head in the sand

MaryPeary · 01/06/2018 12:21

I'm involved in scientific research and methodology, so when I see these posts about health and diet, I often fact-check them. Many are somewhere between "a little bit of truth" and "total bollocks". As a rule of thumb, the more a post or meme tugs on your heartstrings or tries to shock you, the less accurate it's going to be. Unfortunately some activists believe that "the end justifies the means" and that it is acceptable to mislead people, or not to care about truth, just so long as it persuades you to do what they think is right. In fact, the effects of dairy intake on health have been, and are being, studied on a large scale and there aren't any conclusive answers. At present the weight of the evidence seems to be that dairy intake is associated with longer life and better health, but not in all cases, and fermented foods like yoghurt appear to be more helpful whilst in some cases plain milk may be harmful. But in others it's helpful. Got that?! Science works by asking questions and trying to find more answers that add to the body of information we have, so it's an ongoing process. What scientists do is look at each study, say "OK, what could have been done better here? How much confidence do we have in the results? Does this change the weight of the evidence? How does it fit in with all the other research done?" But what some activists do is look at the results and say "Does this fit in with what I already believe? Yes? Then look no further! Share away!" . It's cherry-picking, and when someone does it, it's a big red flag that you can't trust them as a source on science.

Re your news feed, I generally do what @RainbowFairy suggests, which is block the source of the bullshit, but unfollowing your friend is a reasonable response to this too. I think that @SwarmOfCats and @MollyWobbles are right - this sort of thing is counter-productive as they end up alienating people and just posting in an echo chamber. We all differ in how much we're affected by visual images and some suffer real distress being exposed to these images. You don''t have to put up with that if you don't want to. And it's not a case of you turning a blind eye either, in case that's what's worrying you. The fact that a horrible thing happens in the world does not mean that the person posting the image has the answer to how to make the world a better place. Not infrequently, it turns out that the animal cruelty posts are as misleading as the 'darry ruins your health' ones. Sometimes (the infamous raccoon dog being skinned alive video) it turns out that the perpetrator of the cruelty was paid to do something they wouldn't normally do, in order to get a good video. Rare occurrences are portrayed as routine. The people who create this content manipulate your emotions by not providing full information.

How would you feel about having videos/adverts from proselytising religions in your news feed? From every activist organisation, ever, including those on opposing sides? If you don't think you should have to see their material then you don't have to see the animal rights activist material, either. Presumably you would unfollow a friend who just posted endless party-political broadcasts or adverts for a product they sold too. You are not obliged to be anyone's audience.

Re the suggestion that being a vegetarian is pointless compared to being vegan, it depends what your motivation is. If you want to reduce carbon emissions, veganism, vegetarianism or reducing meat intake is a positive step. If you are concerned about animal welfare, look to vegetarianism or meat eating where animals have a decent life. There are many situations where doing what you can is better than doing nothing.

If you want no animal death to be in your name or for your benefit, then veganism makes sense. If you are a believer in animal rights, rather than animal welfare, it makes sense. I don't share those views, because I'm interested in animal welfare rather than believing that animals have rights. I've known many farm animals which have had good lives. It is a big step from saying that many farm animals have imperfect lives, to saying therefore they would be better off never having been born. Does dying young mean you're better off never having been born? That's a huge value judgement and I'm glad that nobody decided I shouldn't get to live because I might suffer .

ScrubTheDecks · 01/06/2018 12:26

Inuit / arctic dwelling peoples ate the stomach contents of slaughtered reindeer and caribou as a way to access plant matter to eat. Semi-digested, to make them digestible for humans!

Talk about adapting to your environment!

Bowlofbabelfish · 01/06/2018 12:27

bowlofBabel : not S Indian populations? I thought there were some diets that were rice, dahl, dosai (rice and lentil or gram flour), veg, pulses but no animal products?

Traditional s Indian diet has plenty of dairy including milk and ghee. It’s veggie (and delicious!) but not vegan.

No pre industrial populations have been vegan - b12 supplements have always been needed. Our biochemistry, our dentition and our guts show us that we evolved eating a varied diet. Archeological analysis of bones can actually tell you what type of food someone lived off - it’s possible to see if a person had a meat rich/shellfish rich diet etc. We have always been omnivores and adapted to whatever environmental niche we find.

PrettyLovely · 01/06/2018 12:32

Just unfollow, To be honest I didnt realise alot of what goes on in the slaughtering of animals until I learnt about it from vegans. Its actually really disgusting the way the animals are treated, I could actually never eat meat again now.

Bowlofbabelfish · 01/06/2018 12:32

Re the suggestion that being a vegetarian is pointless compared to being vegan,

I think there’s a lot of point in being vegetarian. Or even just eating less but better quality meat. I personally don’t have a problem eating animal products but I can understand that some people do. I prefer to buy food from as known sources as possible and support local farms which have good husbandry practices. If I’ve seen the chickens poking around when I visit and having a good life then I’m happy to eat their eggs. I’m not happy to eat battery or even barn eggs.

I think we all have a different bar (and indeed it’s not always a free choice - if your food budget is very low then organic meat isn’t always an option..)

I get quite eye rolly at videos such as the ones in the OP. My vegetarian friends never do this. There’s something very odd about policing people’s diets

MsJaneAusten · 01/06/2018 15:07

(see vegan custard made from chickpeas by my brother to accompany Christmas pudding)

Eugh. Point taken.

I also agree that the horrible images do very little to help the vegan cashew. What ultimately convinced me was a friend who said, “well, to me it’s about kindness” and went on to explain her beliefs, about being kind to animals, but also to herself, to others (who were and weren’t vegans), etc.

MsJaneAusten · 01/06/2018 15:08
  • causes, not cashew

Bloody hell, how to spot a vegan by the typos 🙈

expatinscotland · 01/06/2018 15:11

Unfollow, unfollow, unfollow!

sparklypinkshit · 01/06/2018 15:12

if everyone in the world stopped having dairy and became vegan, the dairy farmers are not going to just keep the animals as pets and there would be a mass slaughter!

Well, there’s zero chance that everyone in the world will go vergan overnight. If people started going vegan en masse it would be gradual and farmers would stop intensively breeding these animals rather than killing existing ones.

sparklypinkshit · 01/06/2018 15:13

custard made with chickpeas Envy not envy. You can use a tub of bird’s custard powder or buy a carton of alpro custard for about 90p

NameChangsWarrior · 01/06/2018 15:14

Well, there’s zero chance that everyone in the world will go vergan overnight. If people started going vegan en masse it would be gradual and farmers would stop intensively breeding these animals rather than killing existing ones

Indeed. Plus I really don't think continuous, generation after generations of mass breeding and production would be much better an option, if that statement about mass slaughter of current animals had any truth to it

sparklypinkshit · 01/06/2018 15:17

@NameChangsWarrior yeah, i can’t wrap my head around the argument that veganism is bad because if everyone went vegan there wouldn’t be loads of farm animals around. Personally i fail to see what’s so great about animals being made to breed and breed in order to make offspring who are destined to suffer and then be killed.

Bekabeech · 01/06/2018 15:28

The same as I block posts from my slightly racist relatives - just block the images - click at the top and "I don't want to see images like this".

TheShapeOfEwe · 01/06/2018 15:32

If you were in a pre industrial society you would not be able to survive on a vegan diet

But we're not living in a pre-industrial society are we, so what on earth is your point? Pre-industrialisation people routinely died of smallpox but I bet you don't go around warning people nowadays of the enormous dangers of it do you?

Spartacunt · 01/06/2018 15:35

You could always say "this is so grim and as a vegetarian I would never preach and upset people like this" maybe they'll stop.

You don't know any vegans do you....

Bowlofbabelfish · 01/06/2018 16:02

But we're not living in a pre-industrial society are we, so what on earth is your point?

Somebody asked a question about traditional diets. That’s the answer to that question.

SlowlyWaking · 01/06/2018 19:42

Remember vegans see pictures of meat and animal products all the time. Advertising, people sharing their food pics, cooking shows on TV, butchers windows, leather fashionwear/interior designs/car seats - everything is omni-centric, so that feeling you feel at those images, a lot of us feel that when we see these things everyday. Im not saying that makes it acceptable just that it kind of goes both ways; I agree its annoying when anyone is preachy about anything but thats why social media has filters so no YANBU to make use of those filters but I dont think your friend is unreasonable to share them either.

She obviously feels very passionate, its probably guilt as well if shes new to veganism , I always wonder why it took me so long to change my eating habits (and I used to like my steak rare and mock vegans) and feel motivated to show how its not as restrictive and limiting or boring as people like to make out.

I do share vegan posts on social media but never those kind of images, my thinking is you catch more flies with honey (ironically not vegan at all) and so share pictures of cute animals that have been rescued or delicious plant based recipes. Actually cooking for people is the best way.

Also the great B12 myth - the only reason meat eaters/vegetarians get it is because the animals are given it as a supplement. We just skip the middle man or eat fortified foods.

Agree with sparkly about the custard too, chickpea goop is totally unnecessary. I always go for Birds!

MaryPeary · 01/06/2018 20:57

Some of my vegan friends post photos of tasty - looking vegan food on FB. I actively seek their posts out because they're inspirational and give me (an omnivore) meal ideas.

The ones who post variants on "you are a bastard unless you believe exactly the same thing as me" get unfollowed.

user1465335180 · 01/06/2018 22:21

I had bowel cancer and it's left me with a real problem with fibre in my diet, any normal amount of fibre leaves me with really bad stomach upsets, think getting up and rushing to the toilet desperate to poo, and going back for more of the same at least twice before I can leave the house. I've had to throw away my knickers because they were so badly soiled (sorry, this is TMI I know). I can't even consider a diet that contains all the fibre that vegans eat every day and yet I have to read the posts telling me I'm a complete bastard because I eat meat and won't be vegan! I understand exactly what you mean op about posts making you feel bad!

Seriously, I love animals and give to animal charities/ refuse to eat anything but free range eggs/ buy only meat that's been raised in the kindest possible way but I CAN NOT eat a vegan diet and really don't want to have to be lectured by people who can. Cancer is bloody hard and I think myself lucky every day and I really don't need to made to feel bad

sunsunsunsunsun · 03/06/2018 17:20

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