Work ethic?

[Uglycurtains]

I own a business and the level of staff sickness it insane! I’m not sure if I am being unreasonable- but I have staff of for their child having suspected chicken pox, tingling fingers and my favourite conjunctivitis.
Is this usual? Not sure how to motivate people to actually turn up to work?!

Do people seriously take three weeks of work for Ill children within the first three months of a new job? Surely that is being unreasonable?!

In the third week of working for you??

No they don’t as usually probations would not accommodate 3 weeks off in the first 12.

OP, I understand where you're coming from, running a business can be difficult when absence levels are high as it causes various issues when people take odd days here and there that over time add up. As PP had said, you need to monitor sickness absence levels and where staff meet certain triggers (e.g. 6 episodes within 12 months) then this can lead to disciplinary action. It is worth also thinking about things like pay, hours, holiday entitlement, opportunity to progress or undertake qualifications, management style, involvement in decision making etc., as all these things contribute to employee engagement levels, whch in turn can impact on employees' willingness to attend work.

DRIP, DRIP, DRIP.................

Well OP, if they’re new, then you can get rid of them ASAP. Probationary period and all that.

I’m a pretty militant lefty when it comes to workplace rights, but I believe in quid pro quo, and if they’re swinging the lead and taking the piss out of what I assume is a small business, then get rid. You can’t afford to carry them. 16 hours a week is hardly onerous, for God’s sake!

I agree OP. You can usually tell if someone has a strong work ethic - of course they can’t help time off if genuinely unwell or DCs need looking after, but they’ll be apologetic, offer to make up time etc. They might even mention that they know it looks bad without taking away from the fact that it’s unavoidable.

Those with a different perspective seem to act like work is there for them rather than the other way around and that it’s just too bad for their employer if they won’t be working. Often only contribute the minimum and despite feedback can never see why the former type of person gets promoted above them (instead saying it must be because other person is older/younger/male/female/different socioeconomicbackground/whatever - not because they simply give their all and go the extra mile!)

OP do you really own your own business?

You don't appear to know much about it, certainly on the HR side of things.

If staff have been with you less than two years you may dismiss them and they cannot claim Unfair Dismissal unless they have a protected characteristic under the Equality Act and you have discriminated against them.

Staff who are off sick due to children's illness should not be signed off sick - this is quite a serious matter if they are being paid SSP. They can however claim time off for dependants. This might be useful to you. www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants

I have only had one day off in six years but you sound like a really horrible manager who doesn't appear to actually see your employees as human beings. I would hate to work for you.

If they're on a 16 hour contract and their oh is a higher earner they kind of have yo take the hit don't they. Bills have to be paid.
Some people genuinely don't have anyone to look after sick dcs

Just ask the person on probation to leave. That’s what probation is for. It won’t get any better

No you’re not being U- unless you know that the people you hire have only one choice which is nursery. In that case they need a more understanding employer, but I’ve no idea how people can just say, well I’m not coming in because of x y z.

We’re SE, if we don’t go to work we’re fucked.

i am on mat leave now but had a perfect attendance for the last 4 years at my job.

I did take a day for conjunctivitis though, my eye was watering and stinging and I couldn't look at a computer screen without being in pain from the light. So that could be a genuine reason.

For me I think yes work ethic is a big part of it but feeling part of a team really motivates people. I hate letting people down and want our company to do well. Maybe trying to adopt a more caring approach could help. People respond well to feeling valued.

Hope things improve with your employees.

Whether their OH is the higher earner is not her employer's problem though.

Op I agree

Little in the way of 'work ethic' with some people. The things I've heard as a retail manager! Ridiculous

Conjunctivitis is highly contagious and can cause real problems if not treated. I'm sure you wouldn't want half your workforce with pus filled eyes! Nurseries shouldn't take children with conjunctivitis and quite rightly

Btw there are a few types of conjunctivitis so for older children and adults to go to work or school could be possible depending on type. Young children, who are constantly touching their faces and each other's, shouldn't be mixing with conjunctivitis

I would have a look at the work environment and see if there's something you can improve. Try and get to the root of the problem - why are they unhappy, is there an atmosphere, are they being appreciated? High sickness rates usually indicate an unhappy workforce.

The last time I had conjunctivitis, I could hardly see at all and was certainly not safe to drive to the office. It's not always trivial.

You need robust HR procedures in place to manage sickness and absence, including policies for dependent leave for parents. That's basic and I'm a bit surprised you don't seem to have this. Apart from that your tone makes me think I wouldn't like to work for you - and I say this as someone with very, very low sickness absence rates. On the other hand, I have had leave to be present when my father died and to see to it that my STBXH got help because he was suicidal. My managers were sympathetic and supportive. I now know how incredibly fortunate I am to have them.

Whether their OH is the higher earner is not her employer's problem though.

It kind of is though. It may be that if the OH is a high earner they're not really invested in their job and if they don't have alternate childcare they're the one that's going to be off when the kids are sick. Obviously you can get rid of someone who is on probation but if it's the kind of job that appeals to people who aren't invested in their career the problem could reoccur.

Some of this is gender bias, I had a team member female, professional operational role, part time 2 slightly longer days a week to equate to half time, every time the nursery called (at least once a month, at one point at least one day a week for a whole month) to say DC isn't himself, or seems sleepy orv might have a slight temperature etc she had to drive 45 minutes to collect him when her husband works from home 90% of the time and is five minutes from the nursery!! I did gently query this one day as she was getting stressed apologising for having to go again saying she was falling behind with work and wanted to take her work laptop home with her. She just said oh he's at home in the office but he's got a lot of work on, well revelation so did she and we manage risk and public protection, so every time she left someone else had to cover her work, it couldn't hurt be left for another day. Her DH just didn't value her job. Also the nursery always called mum not dad....

*just not hurt

OP you are not wrong. The current work ethic is appalling. Conjunctivitis in adults who can manage their own hygiene is not a reason to be off sick. Chicken pox in a child is annual leave. My company employs a robust policy to manage sick leave. I had surgery for breast cancer and the subsequent treatment and have been back at work 2 months and worked from home all the way through treatment permitting. Yet I have staff who call in sick for a sniffle. Drives me batshit crazy.

I follow a simple policy at the office I manage- if your absence is not approved by a member of senior management by 8.30am the same morning, you either come in or you're out the door immediately.

OK time for me to weigh in with my 6 penny worth. There have been a lot of very valid points made. Chicken pox in a child (rather than the adult) CAN be dealt with using the employee's annual leave BUT there should be no whinging on the part of management. The leave should be granted automatically. I have been there and worn this particular T-shirt and my employer invoked the Bradford Index, brought in occupational health and wasted God knows how much money over a situation I had no control over.

Regarding the adult ailments let's think like a proper manager here. What should proper managers focus on? Money and certainly in the case of a nursery, continuing profits! Now if the NHS says conjunctivitis is an unsafe condition to carry on working who are we to play doctors? I completely concur with TheShapeOfEwe in that an unhappy workplace does cause higher absence levels. Why? cos the staff feel worthless.

And my final message to OP. You CAN offer to pay the employee's GP surgery for a letter confirming their visit / sickness if you think there may be porky pies.

Tingling fingers - my first thought is a disc injury in the their neck that needs assessment. They could need surgery or high dose steroids to avoid paralysis or loss of function! There are other (serious) things leading to tingling fingers. If they use computers at work you might also need to offer them an OH appointment in case it's related to mouse/computer.

Is there an option for staff to work from home if children sick? This is what DH and I do, working around meetings/calls, and then catching up in the evening. Often they can watch TV whilst you do at least some work in the day.

If your child is off sick and family are far away then there's very little you can do but look after them at home. Nurseries exclude for all sorts of reasons.