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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand how you make money?

77 replies

QuickWash · 29/05/2018 08:43

I know a few people locally who have recently got in to selling things for companies I had never previously heard of. They have all become basically relentless in their posting on social media, holding coffee mornings, having stalls etc. They most put in hours and hours and hours of work. They all rave about what they're doing but I just can't understand how the pay per hour could be that worth it for low cost or low use (ie not much repeat business) items?

I have tried really hard not to buy anything as I'm trying to buy things I only really need or have wanted for a long time and save up for, but do find it hard when not buying stuff is seen as unsupportive of their efforts, which are considerable. Do they get a big proportion of what they sell moneywise?

AIBU to think it isn't obvious as to why these are such amazing ways to make money?

OP posts:
TheShapeOfEwe · 29/05/2018 10:05

According to that Wikipedia article 99% of participants don't make money - that is insane. They shouldn't be legal!

QuickWash · 29/05/2018 10:50

The blog post linked is horrifying! And a lot rings true! How do people get so wholeheartedly sucked in?!

OP posts:
QuickWash · 29/05/2018 10:58

@TheShape that is utterly ridiculous!!

OP posts:
JustKeepStumbling · 29/05/2018 11:06

I don’t think Tropic falls under this aggressive marketing you get with the others. Not from the person I buy it through anyway and as someone not interested in skin care I now buy regularly as it’s so good for my very sensitive skin. Younique and Juice plus seem to be the worst culprits.

Slartybartfast · 29/05/2018 11:17

Did this all start with Avon?

MrsPreston11 · 29/05/2018 11:20

MLM bullshit. Steer well clear.

I promise you they are not making money.

But the way for them to make a small amount is to recruit others to sell the stuff too.

So of course they have to shitpost loads making it look like they're rolling in cash so that it tempts others to join.

Soubriquet · 29/05/2018 11:21

They aren't making any money unless they have a good 20 people working for them making their own pence

They spend more of their own money than not to make it seem like they are "making a killing"

The more people they employ, the more money they will get (usually a couple of pounds if all sell) buy the people higher up all take a percentage too

QuickWash · 29/05/2018 11:22

I'm guilty of spending too much time faffing on my phone but they must never ever come off theirs. It seriously must be hours of graft?!

OP posts:
NeverTwerkNaked · 29/05/2018 11:22

@QuickWash a lot of the organisations use cult like tactics to suck people in

KittenBeast · 29/05/2018 11:25

Oh god these piss me off. Someone I know has done two of these things, younique was the first, she then packed that in and moved on to scentsy, not long after she packed that in, too. It's like she didn't realise she was being scammed first time round. Very annoying.

Xenia · 29/05/2018 11:28

Some people make money at it but not most. It is certainly not something I would use for making money.

I would never mix business anad pleasure and think it is really rude and naff to do so. I have never even asked a friend to give me work for my law firm. However I am very lucky that I don't need that. People with very little money are entitled to do what they like as long as it is lawful. Some selling amongst friends is not illegal and some of it makes money. Some of it is a scam and doesn't work.

I would be very careful and also never buy anything ever from friends. I never would no matter how much they begged. We all have too many things anyway . The less we buy the better.

RedPanda2 · 29/05/2018 11:30

Young Living seems to be all over FB at the moment. Overpriced aloe vera

Tinkobell · 29/05/2018 11:38

The big one where I live is Pampered Chef. You sit and watch the lady make a puff pastry feta thing. The goods cost a fortune. The pizza stone and the chicken stone thing are the two items guaranteed to 'transform' your otherwise dull cooking. The ladies are always rosey-cheeked hyper and give their hosting 'chum' goodies for having her in their house. I hate them. Been twice and now run!

LawDegreeBarbie · 29/05/2018 11:38

MLM are glorified business cults. They make very little on the overpriced products sold but make income from those in their team so their main mission is to recruit others to sell within their team. Even then, they don't earn very much but you'll have lots of posts and Facebook live sessions where they tell you they're living the dream in financial freedom and essentially psychologically selling a fantasy for their own ends. They keep this up through frequent team meets where their team leader and their team leader plus all the recruits meet and tell you in unison how they're so so successful.

On this one, I would not feel bad about supporting their efforts.

gillybeanz · 29/05/2018 11:38

I did this with perfumes in the 80"s. I did make quite a lot, it equated to a professional person's salary, can't remember how much, but certainly up there.
It lasted about a year before going stale, but I did know what I was letting myself in for.
I was also about 17/18, so it bought me a new wardrobe, bags, shoes, holidays, car and related costs, driving lessons.
I think it's mad to do this when older and needing a reliable job and salary.

LawDegreeBarbie · 29/05/2018 11:42

Just a note to say there is money in this business once you're a few levels up and have team members who have teams of their own who all sell successfully. It's rare that people get to that level these days when the market is fully oversaturated and less people are buying in.

Xenia · 29/05/2018 11:45

If people claim they are doing better than they are it is likely to be a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and trading standards should be put on to it as it would be misleading advertising I suspect. If they really are doing very well though that of course is fine to say as it is truthful.

This is quite a reasonable summary of the differences between types of scheme:

"!Illegal Schemes

The popularity of direct selling sometimes motivates dishonest individuals and organisations to misrepresent themselves as legitimate direct selling businesses in hopes of enticing victims. People globally have lost millions of dollars participating in scams like pyramid schemes. Many victims thought they were paying for help in starting a small business of their own, when in fact they were being fooled by a slick pyramid scheme disguised to look like a legitimate business.

What is a Pyramid Scheme?
Direct selling or network marketing should not be confused with Pyramid scheme. Pyramid shemes are illegal in the UK and many other countries and is a type of fraud which is disguised to look like direct selling. Pyramid schemes is where recruits pay an admission fee to join the scheme to earn commissions on persuading other to join rather than supply any real investment or sale of products or services to the public. Pyramid schemes do not offer contracts to participants, cancellation rights nor the opportunity to buy back unsold goods - all of which are required under UK law.

How Does Direct Selling Differ From a Pyramid Scheme?
Pyramid schemes seek to generate income to those who participate, from the recruitment of others. In a legitimate direct selling organisation income is generated by the sale or consumption of the product either by the salesperson or those in that person's downline.
Legitimate companies rely on solid sales over time. A strong base of customers who love and use the products is important to continuing success. Scams like pyramid schemes, on the other hand, generally rely on people making a large upfront payment, from which the scheme promoter profits. People are then reliant on recruiting others into the scheme in order to recover their upfront cost and earn further income.
Multi-level marketing structures are commonly used for the distribution of goods and services in the direct selling industry. These structures may seem similar to pyramid schemes, but in reality they are substantially different and are more similar to a conventional corporate business model.
In direct selling new salespersons are contracted to organisations under independent contractor arrangements. They are usually required to make a modest payment the aim of which is to have the salesperson show a commitment to the organisations and for a quantity of goods and/or literature and stationery to facilitate the demonstration and sale of products to customers and prospective customers. In a pyramid scheme however there is likely to be a large upfront payment for products which will be generally overpriced and have little or no market value.
In a legitimate direct selling opportunity the rewards come from sales of products and services to consumers by salespersons and their recruits, called down lines.

Avoiding Pyramid Schemes
Before considering an opportunity, ask yourself these questions:

• Are start-up costs minimal?
• Can you return unsold inventory?
• Is income only possible from the sale of products?

If the answer to each is yes then you are probably considering a legitimate direct selling opportunity.

All DSA Member companies are audited for compliance to the DSA Code and operate in accordance with UK law and comply with DSA Codes. Start up cost in direct selling organisations is usually a modest contribution, typically around £100, to the cost of a sales kit. Organisations want to make it easy and inexpensive for new salespersons. This is unlike pyramid schemes, which are often disguised with direct selling characteristics. Pyramid schemes make their money from fees paid by new recruits or by loading inventory or training aids on them. High entry costs are a tell tale sign.

A condition of DSA Membership is that Members have a buy back policy. This means if you quit the business, the Member will buy back unsold marketable products you purchased in the prior 12 months, for 90 percent of what you paid for them. Think carefully about opportunities that encourage front end loading, or buying large inventories of unreturnable products to reach levels for price or other gains.

Earnings from sales, not recruitment, are essential for a legitimate business. Direct selling, like other retail channels, depends on selling to consumers. This requires quality products at competitive prices. Be careful of any business that claims you can get rich by solely using their products or by recruiting new people into the business. You should believe in the products you will be selling.

We would advise that you always select a company who is a Member of the UK DSA. "
www.dsa.org.uk/consumer-advice/illegal-schemes/

Loobyloomicles · 29/05/2018 11:53

Ah, good old MLM.

I work part time in the beauty business and belong to various professional only Facebook groups. This weekend, someone posted about a 'fabulous business opportunity' to sell skincare products, with a small initial cost etc. Loads of people (the ones just starting out, who perhaps don't have the budget (£1000s) to buy into the big brands) expressed interest.

When others in the group called it out as a MLM, the original poster trotted out all the tropes - 'We are not a pyramid scheme', 'Our products are better than 99% of the professional skincare ranges out there', 'You can make loads of money with minimal outlay' etc.

They then acted all hurt because they'd apparently only been trying to recruit people as they wanted to share this fabulous opportunity, not because there was any financial incentive to doing so. We were all horrible and judgemental for questioning this, and not recognising that they were just trying to help... Hmm

LawDegreeBarbie · 29/05/2018 11:57

@LoobyLoomicles Sounds like someone I know! Her entire marketing scheme is to build it around helping people, sharing amazing life changing opportunities and being hurt that people don't want to be helped by her and her amazing product line. Add that in with self help advice and life coaching with product drops and the guilt she can inspire in other is amazing (and awful) to see.

NeverTwerkNaked · 29/05/2018 12:00

@Xenia even the DSA ones are beyond dodgy sadly. Mumsnetters (and others have uncovered countless horror stories and scandals). The DSA is just a protectionist organisation.

I have warned many people making big false claims that they are at risk of being found guilty of fraud and other criminal offences. But the law hasn’t quite caught up with how dodgy this is (plus I think it suits the government to turn a blind eye because it helps push their unemployment stats down)

NeverTwerkNaked · 29/05/2018 12:12

This is an excellent article too www.google.co.uk/amp/s/the-motherload.co.uk/network-marketing-a-cult-for-mums/amp/

NeverTwerkNaked · 29/05/2018 12:13

And Elle Beau’s blog is about her experiences in Younique, an MLM that is part of the DSA but incredible dodgy in terms of its methods and products and culture

NeverTwerkNaked · 29/05/2018 12:13

*incredibly

gillybeanz · 29/05/2018 12:15

I don't think I'd make so much now, no way.
These pyramid schemes are well known now and yes the market is saturated.
When I sold smell a like perfumes, can't even remember the name now, it was relatively new idea and a lot of networking was done through friends holding parties and then their friends etc.
I soon gained a team and they soon gained teams.
I was also in relatively early so quite close to the top to begin with.
I guess looking at what I was able to buy we would be looking at between £35k/ £40k now, for the year.
It's worth it if you can get in from the start, and possibly it was easier with fewer products out there.
There was no internet, so lots of parties and recruiting new people. The estates were full of willing customers as they couldn't afford the real perfume. I can remember the smells were quite authentic and were copies of Channel no5, Cocoa, Poison, to name a few.

PavoReal · 29/05/2018 12:16

Slightly off topic, but the penny has just dropped for me. I bought a Stella and Dot bracelet for £40 with some cash I got for my 40th. Didn't take long before the little stones started falling out, making it unwearable. I was so disappointed as it was cash my Gran had given me. Now I realise it was MLM Sad

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