To think we should do away entirely with school holidays?

[SkaPunkPrincess]

Just musing and wondering why we don't just do away with them entirely?

Run schools like a regular workplace in that they operate 52 weeks of the year, Teachers and students to get 4 weeks allocated holiday allowance per year and parents can use this at their discretion. Staff would be able to be more flexible and they would have more time in the year to teach children at a more realistic pace?

Am I missing why this isn't a genius idea?

@CaptainBrickbeard I know... couldn't pass the opportunity to moan though.

One of the things that is always missed about Finland (and various other countries) is that schools, teachers and education is respected.

Completely agree. I feel for teachers and the shite they have to put up with from parents, pupils and most of all this utterly incompetent government. I used to work in the NHS and from what I understand the process of squeezing the life out of the organisation and workforce while perusing a model of privatisation is fairly similar across both public services

My son hates school, has a diagnosis of autism and struggles being in the school environment. I've been telling school for years but as he never makes a fuss and internalises everything they don't care.

He's just gone back after two months off right before his GCSEs after suffering a psychosis so nope no thank you, his holiday time and being away from school literally saves his life.

If I could go back I'd withdraw him and never put him through it.

School is great to most kids who can fit into it. For those young people that don't it's hellish.

Teachers saying that they would be delighted to be able to clock off at 5 and take holidays whenever they want!!! No job allows that.

I think you'll find most places that operate on a shift work basis allows that. End of shift = end of problem. I didn't go home worrying about having to re-dress mannequins when I worked at H&M.

The school summer holidays were the some of the best days of my childhood. Not because we went on exotic trips or anything, just the freedom of being a child all summer with no school responsibilities.

OH GOD, this, over - over and again... it was heaven.... making dens in the hay fields, staying up late with mum and dad and siblings watching a film, because we didn't have to get up early, playing in the paddling pool with friends, lunch in the garden, picnics out to the park, - roller skating up and down the road, until we made dents in the concrete! Heaven!

I actually don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all. And yes I am a parent. I also work.

However I think we need to re-think the whole state school system in this country. It just isn’t fit for purpose. I don’t believe that the schools have any real idea how to equip students with the skills to become the work force of tomorrow. To start with they need to cut down on all the testing, reduce stress for students and teachers and concentrate on core skills, particularly at primary level.

As to the school day, of course it should be longer and in line with the demands of modern working life. Go back thirty years and it was the norm to buy a house on one salary so one parent could give up work to stay home - that is no longer possible for an awful lot of people and both parents have to work to survive. And flexible work is hard to find.

However, I do think that what is needed is discretionary state funded wrap around care at schools both during term and in school holidays. Ie in summer holidays schools would open up at the usual time and run summer camp concentrating on soft skills and fun activities. Obviously this work would not be carried out by teachers but by new roles. And yes government would need to provide additional funding but don’t tell me they couldn’t find it if they thought it was a priority.

Obviously it would be wonderful if all kids could spend the holidays at home but that’s not the reality for a lot of people and I suspect it will only get worse for future generations as wages stay low and living costs continue to soar. The government needs to look at how it can support working families both now and in the future.

As to the school day, of course it should be longer and in line with the demands of modern working life.

Maybe working life needs to be re-jigged instead.

Yabu, it wouldn’t work for a start and secondly children aren’t robots, there is more to education than being stuck in a class room.

So considering that teachers are only paid for the 195 days they are contracted to work and the holidays are technically unpaid, I thought I'd cost this out very loosely. (VERY loosely!!) Out of interest.

Let's say each teacher has to provide another 2 months worth of teaching and should therefore paid for such - let's say that's a rough average of around an extra £3k per teacher per year.

There are approx half a million full time teachers in the UK. Multiply that by £3k, that's an extra £1.5 billion to find. When schools are currently on the bones of their arses as it is.

Not including part time teachers, TAs or support staff. So, naaaah. Think this might be a non-starter....

It's a long thread so please accept my apologies if I am unwittingly repeating other people's posts.

There's a really good case for shortening the summer holiday, which disadvantages most children and maybe lengthening others.

There's also a really good case for making more use of school facilities in terms of creating out of hours care, community facilities etc. State schools and private schools too have a bunch of buildings and facilities that aren't used to the max. If the school netball court can be used for a netball club then everyone wins, don't they?

Cost of teachers would be extortionate. We'd have to be paid for the extra weeks. Also - kids need time off to re-charge. I have 2 kids (reception and y5) - they are both ready for a holiday by the end of a half term.

Alfred - I do agree that in a perfect world we would have a better balance between work and family life but we are not living in that world. In order to return to a situation where one parent could stay at home throughout their kids’ childhood the government would need to ensure a radical reduction in housing and general living costs or a vast increase in wages and greater job security. Not going to happen. There are too many variables at play. Far easier to fund wraparound care throughout childhood.

I don't think most teachers and senior management would disagree with you Scarlet re: 'they need to cut down on all the testing, reduce stress for students and teachers and concentrate on core skills, particularly at primary level'

However, schools are held over a barrel with test scores and 'accountability'. I think teachers know very well what skills children need. 'I don’t believe that the schools have any real idea how to equip students with the skills to become the work force of tomorrow.' But they're not allowed to focus on practical skills and creativity as they are not measurable. And therefore no good to a Government obsessed with scores and data.

@Scarlet1234 the government doesn't fund schools enough for the amount of time they're open now!

I’ve never had a job that clocked off at 5, even in my low paid student days. But I’m sure they exist.

Many other European countries have more family friendly working conditions. Switzerland and Holland for example, it’s the norm to dork a shorter week. In Denmark parents leave early to collect children. I don’t think they get the vitriol that parents do here if you can’t stay very late to finish a project.
I left work at 10 pm yesterday and was frowned at.

The luckiest, I take your point, yes the fault ultimately lies with the government.

children aren’t robots, there is more to education than being stuck in a class room.
This x100

Even as a teacher it's obvious that children can learn so much from life beyond our classrooms.

Rebel, I know that schools are underfunded. But that’s due to a decision by government to direct funds elsewhere. I believe that they could invest more funds into wrap around care if they considered it a priority. Obviously cut backs would have to be made elsewhere. Perhaps they could make them by cutting back on the resources used on all the reporting and data analysis which I’m sure requires layers of management.

Totally great idea! Not sure teachers would go for it though

You don't teach creativity and communication skills. They come from life experience through unstructured time. Creativity in particular comes from boredom. Not allowed in schools.

Total wraparound care would only lead down the path of increasing the work day for parents further. Should we just drop our children off to the state straight from the womb and then maybe meet them once a week, so all we can do is work, eat, sleep?

No, if it ever came to having to have my children in school for longer I'd home-ed, and for a neurotypical child I'm not normally a fan of that concept.

And to the poster above who said something about the summer holiday disadvantaging most children - no, it doesn't. It disadvantages a few, who are parked in front of a great big box all day. Everyone else - even the children just kicked out to play outside all day - usually learn some other useful skills.

Knowledge on rote isn't all there is to education.

I work in a School. Believe me when I tell you that kids and school staff need the breaks. I explain it like being in labour... you'd burn out if you didn't have the little breaks in-between.

As to the school day, of course it should be longer and in line with the demands of modern working life.

Utter bollocks. Why would you want children doing an adult working day?

Anyway... I've missed a few pages of posts. Has anyone come up with an answer to the 'Where will the money come from to pay teachers for all the extra weeks?' question yet?
Or the 'What happens when teachers take holiday during crucial GCSE times?' question?
Or the 'How do you keep constantly catching kids up with topics they've missed?' question?
Or the 'Teachers will hate this, and even more of them will quit' problem?

I doubt it somehow. The people recommending this clearly have not the tiniest clue about how schools work.

I actually like spending time with my kids thanks! I also think kids need that time off to recharge and do other things.
So no I dont agree.

. It disadvantages a few, who are parked in front of a great big box all day.

If only that was the only issue. A lot of the kids(depending on the area) are looking at shouting,screaming,being in the way,neglect,less food,their needs and voices ignored,very little socialisation,being full time carers,days of chores and looking after siblings, dealing with the parents addiction with no(or very little) reprieve.