To think we should do away entirely with school holidays?

[SkaPunkPrincess]

Just musing and wondering why we don't just do away with them entirely?

Run schools like a regular workplace in that they operate 52 weeks of the year, Teachers and students to get 4 weeks allocated holiday allowance per year and parents can use this at their discretion. Staff would be able to be more flexible and they would have more time in the year to teach children at a more realistic pace?

Am I missing why this isn't a genius idea?

Teacher is not sustainable 48 weeks a year. There would be no one left. Oh and children need the chance to experience childhood while they can!

Teaching

YABU
Children need the rest and to have fun and have a childhood. They aren't employees
Nobody would teach without the holidays, its bad enough for them already.

Nobody would teach without the holidays, its bad enough for them already.

There's a lot of truth in that unfortunately.

Oh go on then. Put the last nail in for me so I'll leave teaching.

Seriously, it's enough of a faff catching up the few kids a class who are in Spain at the start of every term. I do need to make sure they catch up, because their results are all my fault and I have to justify their progress or lack thereof at every progress meeting or my pay is liable.

Imagine if I had to do that for a ton more kids at any given point in the year.

Also, anyone who has ever taught a class at the end of a seven week half term and seen them in that hyper state of exhaustion knows that being in school for longer will have a detrimental rather than positive effect on learning.

Yes there are some children who slump in the Summer. I'm very aware and worried for some of my class that rely on fsm and the added care of staff. However, they'll also be the kids in school all the time under your plan. You going to stump up for fsm every week of the year? Free transport? Breakfast clubs? Speaking as someone who mainly funds classroom.supplies and snacks herself, i don't think the money will be forthcoming.

Miggeldy I answered and you ignored.
I've also said your children at in the minority, so perhaps I should ask you why that is?

Lighthouse
If all schools charged fees, what would happen to the children of the poor ?
You know, the 50% of adults who do not earn enough to pay income tax ....

Also at Miggeldy: a lot of my class have shift working parents. They go to childminders at 5.30am. Sometimes the night before. They then attend afterschool clubs till 6. Sometimes a rural commute on top of that. Then because the parents haven't seen them, theyre often late to bed. Some days by the end of half term they nod off in the book corner. Not to mention the fact that every single element of their day is flat out scheduled. I try to include some downtime but i am limited by what i HAVE to include in my crowded timetable.

Even kids without shift pressures have long days. My own are at the childminders by 7 (up at 6.30) and again after school till 6, home at 6.30. It's a bloody long day for children and they feel it.

Miggeldy
I went to school a LOOONG time ago
and it was private school so LOOOONNGG holidays
by the end of term I was shattered - because having your brain pumped full of new stuff all day every day
is a lot more tiring than applying what you already know day in day out

when I am learning new legislation my brain goes to mush much quicker than when I'm applying it

learning builds new synapses
working often does not

DTalkin
I guess it would be means tested

If the OP can just think aloud, so can I

Why would you want to scrap the school holidays?

@boilerhouse2007

I'm mystified. You have now twice argued against the points that you think I am making, rather than the ones that I actually am.

FWIW, summer learning loss is discussed and researched pretty much globally, including in Ireland, Canada, and the USA.

You clearly have strong and valid views on the culture of monitoring and inspection in English schools but please don't project your personal agenda regarding Ofsted onto my points. I speak from fifteen years' experience of working with very disadvantaged children for whom the summer holidays are pretty fucking awful, Ofsted or no Ofsted.

I agree that it could be worth looking at how school holidays are structured, 4 weeks in the summer (with some overlap but also slightly different times in different areas to stretch out tourism revenue etc) and an extra week in February and October wouldn't be a bad starting point.

The thing is, not all life happens in school. A lot of extra-curricular activities will run special events in the holidays, because they can get the critical mass of children to make it worthwhile. Super-flexible holidays would get rid of this.

It's obviously unaffordable to fund schools opening 52 weeks of the year, but it does make sense to use school buildings and facilities to host holiday clubs. These could be free for children on free school meals, and I agree that more could be done for older children, children with SN, etc, in the holidays.

I do think a lot of people who struggle with school holidays have younger children. For older teens, it's often a time when they have opportunities to do extra stuff, either through their hobbies, or things like NCS, or getting a summer job (yes, older teens do still have these) or just socializing. Perhaps the answer is to have different holidays for primary and secondary schools (although this could become a nightmare when families want a holiday all together). We could also have different hours in the school day to suit the teen body clock.

But complete flexibility just wouldn't work. Currently, the average number of sick days for a teacher is 8.4 (although I'd guess that some are off long term, and others not at all). If full time teachers could take 28 days whenever they liked, that would have a massively detrimental effect on student's learning. They'd regularly be taught by people who didn't know them at all, and didn't know exactly where they were with their class work. It would be an utter shambles (and very expensive to fund).

Nobody would teach without the holidays, its bad enough for them already.

Conversely I was interested in teaching but was put off by the ridiculous term time hours - I'd much prefer shorter holidays and shorter hours during the term. Perhaps with afternoons spent doing forest school - taught by different staff than academic teachers. It would certainly be better for social mobility (the poorest kids really suffer over the long summer holidays) and would mean kids and teachers are less exhausted by the end of term.

It's just a pipe dream though in all likelihood it would end up being more work for staff and students.

Why would you want to scrap the school holidays?

Childcare fees.

Other issue I can see (as a teacher) is maintenance etc. School holidays are when all the jobs that can't be done when the kids are there get done!

**
It's obviously unaffordable to fund schools opening 52 weeks of the year, but it does make sense to use school buildings and facilities to host holiday clubs. These could be free for children on free school meals, and I agree that more could be done for older children, children with SN, etc, in the holidays.

The problem is though- where does the money for that come from? Im not disagreeing that the holidays are hard for children and families with low incomes and children with SEN as current provisions dont really cater for children with additional needs. But ultimately, these need money to run. School buildings can be used but holiday club staff wont work for free and get paid minimum wage as it is. And with that comes consequences. Pay people little and the clubs are likely to be pretty boring. There will also need to be money for food, possibly 3 meals unless parents literally send in a picnic. And of course making it free for children on FSM, means that the funding will probably have to come from the fees of those that dont.
The government are not going to fund it well at all. They dont even provide enough for free 30 hours childcare for early years right now or just schools in general.

In principal, I dont disagree with your idea.

I think the long summer holiday is fantastic. Kids need a break and to totally forget school in the summer and start afresh in the autumn

@miggledyhiggins I would imagine because they are young children who should be out learning through play, climbing, exploring, finding things out, and naturally learning all day long. Not confined to one room with 29 other children with a couple of short breaks interspersed with having been trained to sit still unnaturally for long periods reading/writing/staring at boards and learning how to listen nicely, whilst the poor teacher tries to manage all of their individual needs and learning requirements. It is hard work and tiring for MANY children and a completely unnatural way for them to behave. I have children who managed school ok and some who find it so hard because from such a young age they are having their natural behaviour stamped out so they conform.

I wouldn't like this. I think kids AND teachers need a break.

If I'm honest I would prefer a shorter summer break - 4 weeks with the other 2 weeks tacked onto half terms or something. Holiday childcare is a PITA for me. But even so I wouldn't like to see them get less holidays.

Aside of course from learning all day and taking in information and being with so many other people all day. And assembly. How dire is assembly.

Because they're children! They need a decent break regularly. They need time to be children. A terrible idea. School is meant to be for educating children not for enabling parents to work.

God no I love the school holidays. I work part time but rearrange my hours to 2 long days in the holidays. It's the best bit of my year when we get the 6 weeks! Kids need a break. They'll have plenty of years to be working all year round when they are grown up. Give the poor buggers some fun and freedom. It's unfortunate if you work full time and the holidays are a pain but that's the sort of thing you have to plan for when you have kids!

boredandtired did remind me actually that for introvert kids the holiday probably offers some respite (unless they just go to a different childcare setting). Even if there was less structured learning in the school day it's still going to be with loads of other kids around.

The way teaching has been in the last few years, (ridiculous expectations, teaching to data, lack of support, a climate of competition and fear) noone in their right mind would teach if it wasn't for the holidays. You seriously couldn't sustain such high levels of stress without regular breaks.